Saw plates steel and backs supplies

Discussion in 'Saw Makers Forum' started by need2boat, Feb 22, 2012.

  1. TraditionalToolworks

    TraditionalToolworks Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    181
    Matt,

    Seems that Joe wanted that piece of 1/4" x 3/4", but not clear after his last email. If Joe takes that there wouldn't be enough for another piece.

    The back is too heavy for a 12" - 14" saw, IMO, is why I feel 3/16" (not 5/16") would be better.

    I made an 18" saw and used that back, it was actually 1-1/2" wide and I sliced it down the middle. That saw I used a .032" plate on. I wouldn't use that thick of a plate on most of my saws, but that was a 4" plate.

    It's all a matter of preference. Disston used thick plates. In modern times people are using thinner plates, some of them too thin. On small saws they are using .015", and I think that's too thin over the long haul. Some of it is just appealing to the people buying saws. Half of them read Schwarz' blog and run out buying what he reviews. That is when he's not selling his $25 DVDs...

    Sounds like Ray has you covered on the 1/4" backs.
     
  2. mattsworld

    mattsworld Member

    Messages:
    23
    Alan

    Ray is going to hook me up I think...so give what you've got to Joe. :) I appreciate your offer and assistance nonetheless.

    As for the weight, I like heavy backs. I favor 18th century and early 19th century backsaw forms with nearly perpendicular hang on the totes, so I like the weight to do the work.

    As for thin plates, I would like to point out that thin plates were in common use in the late 18th/early to mid 19th centuries. I have some saws from that period that are 16 and 18 inches long with 0.020 and 0.025 thick plates. In the last year alone I'd also say that I have done repair work to at least half a dozen mid-19th century DT saws with plates in the 0.015 range.

    One of the benefits of being a professional saw sharpener/repairer is that I get to see so many saws from all over Europe and America. I am always curious about their forms....plate thickness in particular. And there doesn't seem to be much standardization in thickness either....I can get an 1850s Sheffield tenon saw one day with a 0.032 plate, and another the next day with a 0.020 plate.

    One saw in my shop right now is an English saw by Dewerson (a maker I've never seen before) and it has the thinnest plate, back and tote I've ever seen on a tenon saw. I'll post some pics and specs if I get a chance this weekend.

    Anyway, as for your thoughts about Schwarz, it is true that he has popularized thinner plates on saws....but I think this is a positive counter-point to the tradition of thicker plates that Disston did indeed introduce. I love Henry Disston, but his backsaws were deplorable. He ruined the fine English tradition of perpendicular hangs and thin plates on joinery saws. Oh well. :(

    Thanks again for your help.
     
  3. TraditionalToolworks

    TraditionalToolworks Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    181
    Yes, that sounds like it will work best for you.
    That is a lot of old dovetail saws to have worked on, considering there are few examples. As I have stated previously I think it's a matter of preference. I see few older plates that are .020, especially on tenon saws. But I think you see more old saws than me, I just know the ones I own. I only have a couple old English dovetail saws, they are pretty hard to find in my experience.
    That's a phenomena! :) I agree the plates change, but I haven't seen many that thin. What do you use to measure the plates with? :confused:
    Would like to see it. One saw doesn't make it historical, but each of them help to add to the history.
    Thanks for your help! it's really got me to think about being able to sell product and/or how to do it in a way that works for me. I will hopefully be on my way to being able to provide an entire kit soon. I need a couple more tools for my lathe so I can make split-nuts more efficiently. :)

    The other thing is that I have been reminded how difficult it is to have all size stock for everyone. This goes for both stock and saws. .015" is not a standard size for saw blades, and folded backs are more suitable. Most people seem to slot at .016" for the .015" plate, best I can tell. Locally I have a hard time selling large stock backs, so the smaller stuff goes better, as well as fitting my own taste.

    I'm going to make a couple backs out of brass and finish them how I would want one to be in a kit if I was going to buy it. That way I can tell better how much time I'll have into something like that. In that regard, having nice backs with chamfors on them is more suitable. Certainly if the idea is for the customer to be able to focus on the handle/woodwork.
     
  4. Dusty Shed Dweller

    Dusty Shed Dweller Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    120
    I have a pile of old backsaws to 14" needing new plates. I ordered some plates from Wenzloff's but I've been waiting a very long time and the delivery charges are exhorbitant. Does anybody know of a source for suitable plate material in Australia? I'm not fussy - 0.020" or 0.025" would be fine.
     
  5. ray

    ray Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    651
    Hi Joe,

    I bought some split nuts from Rob Streeper, he is a member on here rstreeper, he is also making folded backs.

    Ray
     
  6. ray

    ray Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    651
    I have some 20 thou plate, send me an email with details of what you are looking for.

    Ray
     
  7. rstreeper

    rstreeper Member

    Messages:
    5
    Hi all,

    Yes, I am making folded saw backs. I have brass in three thicknesses up to 1/8", I have stainless and mild steel 0.90". Lengths range up to 18" in any of the materials. I have these listed on eBay, search Alamo Toolworks. I can make significant discounts for multi-item orders. You can see some pictures of saws I've made at Woodworkforums.net, just search my name. Here are some pictures of saws I've made with my backs.
    SN14 RHS full view.jpg

    SN19 RHS a.jpg
     
  8. rstreeper

    rstreeper Member

    Messages:
    5
    Here's a picture of backs that are ready for installation.
    ready saw backs a.jpg