Hello all, This is another enormous saw by British standards, it having a blade just over 20 inches long. The handle is nothing to write home about but, as the seller said, it would have cost a lot more with a better handle. There are three firms that could have made this as far as I can see. Weldon Furniss and Co. (1809 to 1817. Furniss Cutler and Stacy (1818 to 1833) and then any of the Cutler incarnations from 1837 onwards. This is where it gets confusing. The only reference in BSSM to the mark using "Weldon" only is as a secondary line of Hiram Cutler. I have a Weldon Furniss and Co. backsaw and it is clearly marked as such. There are two marks recorded in BSSM for Furniss Cutler and Stacey and neither comprises "Weldon" only. Although if I had to date the mark simply by looking at it, I would put it during this firm's existence. It should be, however, a Hiram Cutler saw. It does have "German.Steel" but this could be a late usage of the "dot". To make matters more complicated I have seen an image of a "Weldon" only backsaw dated at 1810 - ish. Does anyone have any thoughts. Fred
Hi Fred, I just got the mate to your saw in a box lot at a local auction. Not quite as large, it's 18 1/4" long and has the same German.Steel mark as yours. The spine on mine tapers more than 3/16" from handle to toe. Yours appears to do the same, I think. And I do have something to add to your research. There is another reference to Weldon in BSSM, in the citation for Joseph Wilson. Simon posits that William Weldon bought up Wilson's stock when he went bankrupt and out of business in 1775. This notion is based on the one existing saw with Wilson's mark, which is also stamped Weldon, just as your and my examples are. Weldon's mark includes Cast.Steel. The image of the mark is shown on page 651. BSSM dates it in the range of 1770-1820, although I'm not sure why since I'd be surprised if the stock sat around for 45 years before being re-used by Weldon. David
Thanks David, I hadn't seen the Weldon/Wilson saw before you pointed it out. It is also nice to see what the my handle should look like. Even though there is an 18th century "Weldon" (I agree about the stock turnover thing) and the markings on all the saws have the same lettering style, going on the lack of a flattened bottom horn I would still have to put our saws quite late on in the Weldon dynasty (unfortunately). This also raises the question of when the flattened bottom horn ceased to be in fashion. Whilst writing this I have suddenly realised that I don't have the faintest idea. I always assumed that it was the late 1820's/30's ( I accept that cheaper saws retained them indefinitely), but on looking though my photo's I have found a Bayley with a reclining ampersand with a fishtail/dolphin tail handle and which may be 1815 -ish http://www.backsaw.net/forum/index.php?threads/bayley-london-early.771/. Nothing is easy is it? Fred
Hi Fred, Here's another possibly early saw with a dolphin handle. It's a Barber & Genn with the two dot cast steel stamp, like yours. You suggested it was possibly 1790? I think there may be more exceptions, and I wouldn't necessarily discount the Weldons until we get more information about the introduction of dolphin handles. Let's reserve judgment for a while longer. David
Hi David I’m no expert, but earlier this year on eBay there was a brass back 16” Barber & Genn with no handle that went for around £70 and in my quest to learn more about vintage saws I did a bit of digging around on what a Barber & Genn handle looked like. All the ones I saw had the big round check type handles. Just my view, but I don’t think your handle is original. For one it’s doesn’t look to be in straight with the back and the shape is more like a later London maker type handle. Other than the top horn being a little longer, with the 3 nuts it’s very close to a Drabble and Sanderson London handle. Don’t know what it owes you but as is it would still go for good money on eBay. Peter
Hi Peter, Well, my first thought was "Of course, he's right! The screws will show it.". But then I went over to the shop and pulled out the saw to have a look. Of course, it's always possible that the screws were removed and replaced very carefully, but these don't show any obvious signs of ever having even been removed. So then, considering the angle of the chamfer to the spine, I cut a piece of ply to the size of the spine and placed it on the spine as it would be if it hadn't been banged down so much. The chamfer is still out of line, but not more than I've seen on several other old saws. I would imagine that, occasionally, when making handle one didn't always get the chamfer right, to agree with the hang as the handle was fastened on the saw. And, although we do know much about what early handles looked like, there are always anomalies to confuse us. And we don't know for sure whether this saw is from 1790 or 1810. So, it still remains a question whether or not this handle is original to the saw, but I don't think we know for sure yet. It does seem likely based just on handle style. David
Fred, David et al I figured I would piggy back this older thread with another example of a Weldon saw. I don't know if there was any agreement on a specific date for any of the examples but comparing the aesthetics of the much larger examples and this 10 inch steel back saw I see an interesting development of a handle to fit a particular size. To go from an open handle with a sharp dynamic "beak" to a much larger sized closed handle and still carry on a similar aesthetic is very interesting and probably noteworthy in the sense that a common handle maker was probably used. The stamps are different in the locations of name and german- steel but similar font. Still wonder if this was from the Wilson inventory. enjoy Joe S.