The saw vise thread

Discussion in 'Saw Makers Forum' started by pedder, Jul 31, 2011.

  1. pedder

    pedder Active Member

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    Most saw makers have a weak point for saw vises. I like to see others and show you mine:

    I have actually three saw vises:

    an old ulmia, wich are not longer made. A really good saw vise wich holds the blade tight but is a little short for tenon saws and not deep enough for hand saws:

    [​IMG]

    I always found her to short and was happy when Joel from TFWW invited his gramercy vise. It is 14" long and it's clamping mechanism hold the saws chatter free. A good thing is, that you can clamp and release with one hand or even the knee.

    [​IMG]

    And there is a lot of space unter the jaws.

    [​IMG]

    For handsaws it was allways too short, though you need to reclamp the saws only once. But this is in the middle of the saw where one don't want a break in the filing.

    So a friend made me a wooden saw vise:

    [​IMG]

    He darkened the jaws with dark oil, but the metal shavings allways stuck in the porous oak. I would liked it darker, so I begged him to make me some ebony infills, wich he did now:

    [​IMG]

    Now she's perfect!

    Cheers
    Pedder

    Bigger pictures and more saw vises can be found on my blog

    http://pedder-altedamenauskiel.blogspot.com/search/label/Saegekluppe - Saw vice vise
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2011
    Underthedirt likes this.
  2. rilanda

    rilanda Member

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    14
    saw vices

    hi
    :)I to have a wooden saw vice that I have been using for the last 30+ years. It has served me well over this period of time and is now looking a little worse for wear, but it still goes on. I have lost count the number of saws that have passed through its jaws but it must be several hundred, so it owes me nothing and seeing it only cost a very small amount to make it has been excellent value. I must point out that it does need a suitable bench vice to position it, but other than that it works entirely on wedge action. I will at sometime in the future post a picture of this battered old vice that has become a good friend. Incidental have you seen the picture of the saw vice on my thread about Sanderson Brothers and Newbould Ltd., now there's a saw vice!
    Regards
     
  3. kiwi

    kiwi Most Valued Member

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    354
    Nice saw vice Pedder.
    I also gave up using the short steel vices that require you to reposition the saw blade in mid filing, and have found that a home made full length wooden vice is much more satisfactory.
    My vice is free standing, with the jaws tightened by sliding a bar [section of broomstick] to lock down against two wedges which squeeze the hinged jaws together. It looks a bit rough but works fine, and can be taken outside into the sunshine if the weather is cooperating. Maybe I could think about adding some ebony to the jaws as a future improvement.
     

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  4. Force10Matt

    Force10Matt Active Member

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    Who's that weird guy who come's crashing in on an 11 year old thread and waves his tool about? Oh wait, it's me o_O

    So this past week i've been going through my collection of saw vices, cleaning some up ready for sending them off to new homes and weeding out the ones i actually use from the ornaments. I was just scrolling through images trying to identify one that's on the "to be sold" list thinking to myself 'i wander if there's a saw vice page on the forum?' and there it was, a thumbnail tagged 'the saw vise thread' I should have known.

    I've got one here that i'm struggling to identify. I've actually had a couple of them, they're alright, very light castings, nice if you're only filing backsaws occasionally, nowhere near heavy enough to prevent chatter on larger saws though. They're not one that's entered my keepers collection but nonetheless they're a nice little vice. Just wandering if anybody here recognises it? Part of me thinks it may be an E.C. Stearns design.

    I'll attach a couple of pics of a Disston No1 and a No2 that i've given a clean up too. In my view they're nice vices if you're a saw user and perhaps use them for a few minutes a week but i'd struggle to use them as my main vice as a saw enthusiast who puts in several hours a week at the vice. My go-to vice is a heavily tweaked Woden. Almost identical to Pedder's Ulmia only bolted to a section of 100mm box section welded to a 300kg steel bench and reinforced with adjustable screw tention on the ends of the back jaw. (i'll try and remember to take some pics when i'm at work tomorrow) The narrow jaws are a pain but the vice has a superb clamping action and really cuts down on chatter. I've been curious about wooden vices for a while, Back in my furniture making days i used a couple of 3/4" strips of beech to hold my saws in the bench vice, It was a faf and always at the wrong height but who cares when it's something you do for a short time once in a blue moon? I'm now wandering if i should have taken the time to make myself a full length wooden vice years ago, It sure sounds like you guys prefer them.

    Anyway, here's a few pics of the little lightweight one i was talking about. Anyone recognise it? Also a couple of the Disston vices I've cleaned up, just because they're pretty.

    Cheers

    Matt

    PS. Cheers for your help gaining me access to the other side Pedder, I appreciate it.
     

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  5. shoarthing

    shoarthing Most Valued Member

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    . . . . thank you for bringing this thread to the fore: didn’t realise Ulmia made a version of the excellent Woden 187/Paramo “1945” 8 ½” saw-vice.
    Curious to see your mechanical tweak to the ends of the standing jaw.

    Most of this model saw-vice (that I have seen, during half a century) were originally machined so only the outmost 1” of each end of the jaws actually grip - leaving a (roughly) 1/8” gap along the central 6 ½” of the jaws.

    If yours is like this (some jaws have been user-filed over the years, to variable effect), suggest you obtain 3mm or (better) 2mm “nitrile bonded cork gasket material” (comes in A4 sheet, in many brands), cut to size & glue to each jaw in the gappy section. Greatly reduces chatter.
     
  6. Dusty Shed Dweller

    Dusty Shed Dweller Most Valued Member

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    143
    I do the bulk of my filing on an ex-mill unit with 16" jaws, but I'd just about kill for an Acme. As long as its solid, I don't care what brand it is. The wider and heavier the better.

    The small clamp mounted bench models are fine for back saws, especially the tilting models that let you play around with undercut gullets etc if you want to play around with that aspect of filing.
     
  7. Force10Matt

    Force10Matt Active Member

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    Those Paramo vices with the gappy jaws. What are they all about! did they have rubber / cork / leather inserts from new? I've had a few over the years and moved them on asap, they're unuseable as they are, I guess it would make sense that they were intended to have something in the gaps, why else would they be there?
    I had one of a similar design but minus the gaps and with a channel under one of the jaws with a section of 5/16" ish round rubber glued into it so that it compressed the rubber as you closed it, that one worked well to cut the chatter, I think i gave it to a friend for his birthday.

    I keep forgetting to take a picture of my funny little setup, I'll try and remember tomorrow. I'd originally sourced the vice for a customer but knocked it off the bench whilst disposing of the packaging materials 5 minutes after it arrived. Cast iron vs concrete floor rarely goes well does it! If nothing else it gave me a chance to whip out the nickel welding rods and hone my cast welding skills, it came out ok, the jaws needed milling anyway so making a slight adjustment for the repair was no big deal. Either way it was a keeper, the customer bought another that i had found and it's been on the bench ever since. It'd be nice if it were twice the size though.
     
  8. Force10Matt

    Force10Matt Active Member

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    I'm with you there! It'd be quicker to write a list of things i wouldn't do to get my hands on an Acme. They're beautiful great things aren't they.

    Have you guys seen the vice in this video? Skip to about 3 minutes in...

     
  9. Force10Matt

    Force10Matt Active Member

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    IMG_20220303_121447-2.jpg IMG_20220303_121453-2.jpg IMG_20220303_121442-2.jpg IMG_20220303_121526-2.jpg I finaly remembered. Sorry about the crappy picture quality, my phone's not very good at pictures.

    It ain't a particularly pretty setup but it works well. I had to shim the bit the cam lever touches with some 3mm Aluminium sheet to gain the extra squeeze needed after milling the jaws.
     
  10. shoarthing

    shoarthing Most Valued Member

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    . . . . similar to a Stearns #3; but later in style (esp. the butterfly nuts) than the images from a 1924 catalogue - mebbe a knock-off? I like the Stearns #0 a lot as a dovetail-saw vise - lots of clearance adjacent the saw-handle, & rigid enough - mostly due to being screwed to the bench (am *not* a fan of cramped-on saw-vices, esp. those with ball-'n-socket folderols) . . . .
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2022
  11. shoarthing

    shoarthing Most Valued Member

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    80
    On a slight tangent . . . has anyone here experience with the delightfully Heath Robinson Disston saw-filing guide/jig/thingie, specifically when used with short files? I am restoring a Disston 3D saw-vice, plus its guide, but am backsaw-focused - have little interest in handsaws - so my hoard of NOS files is principally STUBS 4 & 4 ½" . . . .
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2022
  12. Force10Matt

    Force10Matt Active Member

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    Sorry for the tardy reply pal, I've been working in the field for a few weeks building stages for a big music festival, only just got back to the workshop.
    Which one is the #0? is that the one with the 4 screw holes that mounts to a vertical surface and a sideways clamping lever? looks a bit like my Woden but nicer?

    Regarding the Disston guide frame doo-dad, i'd never owned a complete one until the other day when i picked up a really clean No.1 with the frame and guide, i gave it a quick go just out of curiosity. I'm struggling to think of something nice to say about the experience.... it kinda sucks, just got in the way and slowed me down, ended up double filing teeth and all sorts. I'm glad i finally manage to track down a clean, complete example of one but i can't honestly say i see much milage in using it. I'll put a small file in it when i have a chance and see if it's any less clumsy, I guess the No. 3 may be less clumsy as it's a much more solid vice to start with.

    I'll let you know how it acts with a short file as soon as i get a chance.

    Cheers

    Matt
     
  13. TraditionalToolworks

    TraditionalToolworks Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    187
    Pedder,

    I find humor in this thread you created more than 11 years ago.

    To share the humor, Pedder had posted on another forum that he was looking for a Acme vise 3-4 months ago, and there was some discussion and Ron Bontz showed one he had restored, it was gorgeous. Pretty hard to find these vises, and many people are not after the filer, but it is not a bad filer, IMO, the seller showed me how to use it.

    Unrelated, a guy posted an Acme Saw Filer in the classified on the same forum (Woodnet) which had the vise, and low and behold it was only about an hour drive from me, a guy had a shop he had worked in as a kid, and bought the company when the owner retired and now he's retiring. He had some pretty expensive sharpening equipment in there, but used the Acme for all the handsaws they sharpened.

    It really is quite the filer and can handle any size saw file, the depth is controlled by the operator. The guy was even willing to crate it up and ship it to Pedder, but he passed. In lieu of that, I bought it. :p

    I got some accessories, a couple heavy duty jointers, a couple Disston sets, and he had a bunch of NOS Simonds files I got. What is pretty nice about the Acme is that you don't need to flip the saw plate to the other side, you can pivot the file from one side to the other and set the angle. I normally sharpen my saws by hand and wasn't looking for the filer, just really wanted the vise.

    It's not very hard to put a saw in the vise and adjust the filer to the teeth on the saw, matching the rake and fleam. I haven't used it, I'm waiting to take it to it's new home to a shop I'm building for my retirement. I have space in the basement I plan to use for hand tool work, and working on getting the detached shop in so I can move my machines up there. In my retirement I plan to revisit saw making, but first I have a log home and shop to finish. Getting a quote for the septic tank this weekend hopefully and ready to move forward with it. There is a bathroom in the shop, so will get that in with machines hooked up before I work on the house. This machine is in really nice shape, it's entirely original.

    acme-filer-01.jpg acme-filer-02.jpg acme-filer-07.jpg acme-filer-10.jpg
     
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  14. shoarthing

    shoarthing Most Valued Member

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    Alan - Hi - so nice to find a filer with a more-or-less full & local history & in such condition. Very best of good fortune with it.
     
  15. pedder

    pedder Active Member

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    42
    Hi Alan, indeed funny to read and see pictures here.
    Who says a slow forum is a bad one?

    I still would like the vise, but I can't afford shipping the whole Saw filer.

    Cheers
    Pedder
     
  16. TraditionalToolworks

    TraditionalToolworks Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    187
    It wasn't cheap, but I'm at the point that I just wanted to have one, it is classic. I didn't really need it. I had bought a 3D vise I ended up giving to a guy over on Woodnet with a bunch of other tools, I hope he learns to use it...I gave him everything he needed to learn to sharpen and maintain his saws, as well as a saw plate and slotted back w/split-nuts to build his own saw. I may build handsaws in the future, but far from that point and more so want to use the saws I have already built to finish my home.

    Gotta give Ray some credit for keeping it going for all these years...there always seems to be folks interested in making handsaws...

    Currently applying my handsaw skills to making a Bob Loveless style drop point hunting knife. I am using Bronze hardware with copper/brass/bronze tones, and burl. I have 2 split-nuts I plan to use on one blade, I have 2 blanks. And honestly, I'm not making the blade, just grinding it and will send it out for heat treating. My plan is to use ebony for one with the split-nuts, having the washer slot filled with black epoxy to match the handle scales.

    I know you wanted it and I tried my best to convince you to buy it, but in the end I guess it was meant to be for me. I still have it sitting outside under a tarp, dare I say...and it's gonna be there for another 4 months at least. Luckily I'm back to work, but I need to watch myself...I'm a sucker for old tools...and this vise was no different. I need to really pull back the reins to get my shop in...that will be key for my retirement.