little Jackson saw

Discussion in 'Forum: Saw Identification and Discussion' started by BigDaddyO, May 13, 2013.

  1. BigDaddyO

    BigDaddyO Member

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    I picked this saw up at an estate sale because it was sitting on top of the saw i really wanted. It didn't look right at all and I figured maybe it was a shop made saw.

    When I started to clean off the rust I noticed an etching on the plate that I didn't recognize. I'm still not sure if the handle is correct as the teeth have been sharpened lower than where it meets the handle. I thought it was a dovetail saw but the teeth are way to big for that.

    Anyone have any information on a Manufacturer: Jackson, Philadelphia, U.S.A.

    All I can find is Spear & Jackson which this does not appear to be one of those.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Thanks for any info you can provide,
    Mike
     
  2. JCrammond

    JCrammond Member

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    Jackson was a Disston second tier saw. The main difference between Jackson and Disston saws were that Jackson saws always had beech handles, the steel seems to be the same. The handle looks typical of a Disston saw, but that size Jackson backsaw usually has an open handle. Also, the ones that I've seen usually have the name stamped in the back with no etch. Maybe that saw was specifically made for the overseas market.

    Jim
     
  3. TobyC

    TobyC Most Valued Member

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    From HERE.

    Toby
     
  4. TobyC

    TobyC Most Valued Member

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    [​IMG]

    Available with 8" to 10" blade (in 2" increments)

    From HERE.

    Toby
     
  5. BigDaddyO

    BigDaddyO Member

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    interesting.

    Thank you all for the info. So it was made by Disston but i'm still unsure of how old this is. From what i'm reading it appears to be prior to 1890 "if" that handle is original.

    I'm not sure what i'm going to do with this. If I keep it, i'm going to have to re-tooth it as i'd like to use it as a dovetails saw but the current tooth is too large for that. Judging by where the etch is currently right at the tooth line this saw has seen many, many, many resharpens so i'm not sure if it's that worth it to put much effort into it.
     
  6. TobyC

    TobyC Most Valued Member

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    Give us a clear pic of the label screw...that's the most accurate way to date it.

    Toby
     
  7. TobyC

    TobyC Most Valued Member

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    It's post 1880s because USA is after Philadelphia.

    Toby
     
  8. TobyC

    TobyC Most Valued Member

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    Actually, It's post 1918 according to the "V" notch in the handle...they changed shape at that time.

    Toby
     
  9. TraditionalToolworks

    TraditionalToolworks Most Valued Member

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    This is a really cool saw!

    It was sharpened a lot but still a very cool saw.

    I kinda take exception to the wording from the Disstonian Institute which Toby pasted. It states:

    "Jackson was a second-line brand with lesser quality in materials and finish than the Disston brand saws."

    The statement makes it sound as if the saws were inferior, and that wasn't really the case. they didn't use premium materials, but they still produced a saw at the same quality. Different size backs/plates and/or split-nuts, but there is nothing wrong with Jackson saws that Disston sold, IMO.

    I do have an open handle Jackson that is etched, it's more of a commemorative etch for a Newspaper company. There is some pics here on BSN if you search.

    However, this etch is very cool, and says to me that this could be before the time when Disston acquired Jackson. He probably got his saw plate from Disston, anyway. But more so, if this was before Disston bought Jackson, that would be a much rarer saw and way more desireable to a collector.

    I always find rare saws to be desireable to collectors anyway. All of our mileage varies.

    Cheers,
    Alan
     
  10. TobyC

    TobyC Most Valued Member

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    All "Jackson" saws were made by Disston, as far as I know.

    Here is a quote from Pete Taran...


    Here is a list of companies acquired by Disston...

    http://www.disstonianinstitute.com/acquisitions.html

    Toby
     
  11. TraditionalToolworks

    TraditionalToolworks Most Valued Member

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    Well, I wouldn't ever lump everything under one umbrella. I'm probably mistaken about Jackson being acquired, Disston swallowed up so many companies it's hard to keep track...very similar to how microsoft operated in the 80s and 90s.

    There's a Wm. Jackson & Co. listed from 1813- (no end date). States they used cast steel from the U.S. Obviously this is a newer saw then 1813, but no end date...However, even if this is a Disston made or not, the etch makes it valuable to a collector.

    I take some statements and comments with a grain of salt when it comes to things like saws, or even guitars. I traded vintage guitars for about 10+ years, and it was similar...there was always exceptions that the factory made, some could have been on special order, others were commemorative, etc...

    I have no idea on the true history of the saw pictured, but can say that I have never seen an etch like that.

    I'm sure the Disstonian is gospel for many, but to me it's just another daddy with a saw problem...not to dis the site at all, I just don't worship the almighty Disston like Erik does. He's done a great job at documenting what he has.

    What I'm getting at is there is always going to be some speculation in anyone's information, IMO. You will never know everything about all companies in 1800, it just won't happen. Much of it doesn't even exist to day. Many, many saws have been lost and destroyed, damaged, repaired, etc...

    [​IMG]

    FWIW, HSMONA lists more companies that were acquired by Disston, I believe.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2013
  12. BigDaddyO

    BigDaddyO Member

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    Medallion Closeup

    I took a closeup of the sawnuts last night. The other sides are just flat head screws that i'm familiar with for most of my other saws.

    The Medallion is something i have never seen. All the other one I have there is writings around the eagle.

    And as you can see in this picture, the wood is in pretty bad shape.

    [​IMG]
     
  13. TobyC

    TobyC Most Valued Member

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    Wow! That's only the second one of those I've seen. Pedder has the other one.

    Look HERE.

    Going by the handle shape alone, I think your saw was made somewhere between 1918 and 1928.

    Toby
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2013
  14. TobyC

    TobyC Most Valued Member

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    Yes there was a Wm. Jackson & Company in Sheffield, HERE.

    I took the relevant part of what Pete said for the quote, he did make note of the "JACKSON & Co." saws. In the quote he was referring to saws marked only with "JACKSON" which had a warranted superior medallion.

    Toby
     
  15. BigDaddyO

    BigDaddyO Member

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    Thank you for the info Toby.
     
  16. JCrammond

    JCrammond Member

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    Since that information was published on the Disstonian Institute, another opinion about Jackson has emerged. There are a number of older looking saws that are marked Jackson that are thought to be manufactured by an Upstate New York saw maker in the 1860s and possibly 1870s. The J in the name stamp is significantly different than the J on the Disston made saws. The handles of these saws are much more shapely with a lamb's tongue and the hook (whatever it's called) at the top. Phil Baker wrote a couple of articles for M-WTCA's Gristmill publication about Jackson saws. As far as I know, these two Jacksons have no connection to each other.

    Disston's use of the name Jackson is thought to be a marketing ploy to confuse some buyers who would have normally purchased a Spear & Jackson saw.

    Jim
     
  17. TobyC

    TobyC Most Valued Member

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    Jim,
    This saw says "Philadelphia U.S.A." in the etch, not New York.

    Toby
     
  18. TobyC

    TobyC Most Valued Member

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    Interesting....LINK

    Toby
     
  19. TobyC

    TobyC Most Valued Member

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    And...LINK

    Toby
     
  20. JCrammond

    JCrammond Member

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    Toby,

    Sorry if I was unclear, I agree that this is a Disston manufactured Jackson saw. I was trying to clarify an earlier statement that all Jackson saws were made by Disston, I don't think that is the case as I have a couple of Jackson saws that do not look like they were made by Disston. I was also trying to point out that the Jackson saws made by Disston were not the result of a take over as in the case of Richardson, Peace et al, but they were just a line of saws that Disston made to fit a certain price point and one possibility of how the line got it's name.

    Jim