Frederick Willey

I got this Frederick Willey saw because it had a blank medallion (I didn't have one) and because it had an appealing address as part of the blade stamp, “Opposite Corn Exchange†(now I'm looking for a “behind the cathedralâ€, or “beside the courthouseâ€, or such), and because I was the only bidder (making this my first ebay saw, and costing more in shipping than for the saw, ..groan)

One of the delights in getting yet another old saw is in looking at its battle scars and wondering about its history. The saw has been well used and has been sharpened down to a pointy toe. I can only imagine the amount of lumber sawn and muscle power expended using this saw over the last 100+ years.
HSMOB lists saw maker Frederick Willey only for 1884, so I did some searching of Trade Directories ( http://www.historicaldirectories.org/hd/howto1.asp ), and looked up census returns (local library has access to Ancestry.com ), and I came up with some more information (I got the Willeys ?)
Frederick Willey born c1852, son of John and Ann Willey. (John is listed as a sawmaker and tool dealer too, in 1861 1870 1871 1881. HSMOB lists him for the shorter period 1866-72 )
Frederick Willey married Sarah and was listed separately from his father as a sawmaker and tool dealer in 1871 1881 1888 1891 1894 The 1891 census shows him with wife and three children and several servants, and the 1894 Trades Directory lists him as “Willey, Frederick, saw, tool & cutlery manufacturer, importer of american inventions & best french band saws, band saws brazed, circular & mill saws gulleted and hammered, saws set & sharpened, 26 Call Lane, 25 New Market street & Corn Exchange. T. N. 360 “


Googling also showed that Fred didn't make all his saws himself, and at some stage marketed saws made by Tyzack Sons & Turner but stamped with his “Frederick Willey, Leeds†moniker ( http://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/how-old-is-my-backsaw-t23096-30.html )

HSMOB also lists Willey, (Mrs) Elizabeth, from the 1888 Directory, but I couldn't find any other listing for her as a sawmaker or related to the other Willey sawmakers.

After the prosperous early 1890s Frederick seems to disappear and the 1901 census lists his wife Sarah Willey as “Head†of the household, living with one daughter and her 81 yr old father, and her occupation as Tool Dealer. (did Fred run off with one of the maids ? Or die ? Or both ? )

Anyone else with info on Frederick Willey and his saws ? Or other saws with interesting address stamps ?

 

Hi Kiwi,

I cannot add anything about Frederick Willey, but I did have the saw on my watch list and for some reason, didn't bid. It possibly had something to do with Leeds being the first ( and only real) city that I have worked in and the experience did not enamour me to it. (Apologies to all W. Yorkshire readers).

Looking at your saw now, I am very saddened that it did colour my decision not to bid. I too, like saws that show the marks of their usage and history. Lovely saw but overseas postage is a downer isn't it? I would love to buy a lot of the British saws advertised in the USA, but postage varies from $19 to $49 and that is just too much for me at the meoment.

One question that I have been dying to ask here for some time is (sorry to hijack your thread to do it) "Why do so many very early (pre 1830's and sometimes C 1800) saws come up for sale in the USA and Canada, when they are hen's teeth rare over here (UK)"?

I suspect that it is something to do with a general greater valuation of history and heritage than we have, but that is hopefully inaccurate and a slanderous expression of opinion only.

Fred

 

A very intersting saw and marking.

It raises the question of the latest dates for use of stamps as opposed to using the then new process of etching. Possibly Leeds not being a centre of saw making was not up with the latest technology. It is a complicated design to stamp. If as I suspect the mark required several stamps to complete, they have done a pretty good job of getting everything lined up.

Items like this do make a Timeline of features difficult to produce.

Graham

 

Willey

Interesting thread: I would have liked this one, but missed it, alas.
The blind medallion is the style of Wheatman and Smith, Russell works, Sheffield (1845-1968); Ray is kindly (I hope) going to help me out and post some pictures, one of which is a backsaw made for Frederick Willey by W&S. They achieved the precision of striking several marks together by probably holding them in a jig - one of theirs for another West Yorkshire ironmonger has 5 separate marks, beautifully lined up.
W&S also kept up the practice of striking marks until close to the end of the 19th cent, even though etching was well established by the 1850's. I've never seen an etched W&S saw.
I doubt if either of the Willeys made any saws of their own.

 

Thanks for the comments everyone.
Fred, Simon, Thanks for not outbidding me.
Fred; the postage cost was for within Ontario (You're spoiled with your cheap UK postage). Regarding the treasure trove of old saws around here, I'm guessing North America was a much bigger market than the UK for the UK manufacturers, as the flood of new settlers all needed houses and mostly needed to be do-it-yourselfers due to the sparse population base with few neighbourhood carpenters available. The subsequent generation would find Dad's old saw useful for their own do-it-yourself house repairs/improvements. Nothing to do with historical appreciation. More saws in use then = more survivor saws now.

 

I realise this is an old thread but I have two Frederick Willey saws.

I was born in Leeds and my family have lived in that vicinity since as far as I can trace back, the 1790's?

This one has come down through my family, though sadly my late father did not take good care of it (photo taken before resharpening):



The other I bought on the bay (6TPI) a few years ago:



I cannot really add much to what has already been said but from what I can remember, all the addresses given for them are very close to each other - just north of the river, SE of the city centre and near the Corn Exchange, which still survives.

Other saws I have with stamped marks are this Ross & Alexander



And this Mansell:



Willey and Mansell saws in the condition I inherited them:



Rod

 

Nice saws Rod, thanks for posting, looks like they're being well cared for now,

and lucky you, to have some personal connection and history of the previous saw owners to go with the saws, to remember whenever you use them.
[I can only wonder about the past working life of my vintage saws, and the lives of the Owners whose names are sometimes impressed into the handles or engraved on the backsaw spine]

The Willey saws and the R&A saw look to be of similar vintage (more on Ross&Alexander at
http://www.backsaw.net/index.php?option=com_jfusion&Itemid=58&jfile=showthread.php&t=213 )
but the Mansell looks more modern with its less detailed handle form

 

Re the Mansell I think you are correct.
The only thing I've managed to find out about it is this piece from the London Gazette:

STAGEY, John William, residing at 311, Abbeydale
Road South, Dore in the city of Sheffield, and
carrying on business at Wallace Works, Furnival
Street. Sheffield aforesaid, under the style of
"Mansell Tool Company", and "H. T. Canty
& Co.", HAND TOOL and FANCY GOODS
DEALER. Court�SHEFFIELD. No. of Matter
�89 of I960. Amount per ��Hd. First or
Final, or otherwise�Supplementary. When Payable
28th Nov.. 1961. Where Payable Offices
of Poppleton & Appleby, 93, Queen Street, Sheffield.

Looks like a tool factor rather than a manufacturer and probably occupying a part of the very large Wallace Works?
http://www.rotherhamweb.co.uk/gallery/steel/

Rod