Brittain Hoole & Co 14" Backsaw

Hello All,

Ray graciously created an account for me. Thanks again Ray.

Obviously, my first post here.

On father's day I was in Bellingham, WA in an antique store not looking for anything in particular. We just sometimes just like to wander around looking at old stuff. I'm sure some of you understand. Tucked in on a shelf I found what looked like an older backsaw. It was grimy but there was no heavy rust and from what I could tell it wasn't pitted hardly at all. The blade was straight and the handle was mostly there. The trademark stamp on the back was mostly illegible but I could make out Sheffield. The price was right so I brought it home.

I'll preface the next part of the story to say that I'm a hobbyist woodworker always looking to expand my hand tool collection. Any tool I buy, I buy with the intention of using. So, hopefully my actions below didn’t ruin my kids inheritance.

I spent some time with a scrub pad, a small metal pick and mineral spirits and got the trademark cleaned up well enough to see what looks like "BRITTAIN HOOLE & CO" "VICTOIA WORKS" "SHEFFIELD" and in smaller letters stamped to the right of the trademark are the words "German Steel".

I found in another thread on this site the following:
BRITTAIN, HOOLE & Co SHEFFELD
5 Arundel Lane 1833-1837
Samuel Swann Brittain and Henry Hoole: saw, file and calico web manufacturers, and steel refiners.

The crosscut blade is rectangular and is 14†long and is 3 3/8†wide. There are what looks like 11 TTP at the nose and heel. The back is ~5/16†thick. The blade is .033†thick with a pitch of ~.037' wide. So, that would be a .004 set, right? Or something like that.

I have cleaned up the blade with a scrubbing pad and mineral spirits and waxed it. I did not remove the back or the handle during the light cleaning I gave the saw. I haven’t done anything to the closed handle/tote yet. The handle is pretty dry and has a little damage to the upper and lower “hornsâ€. Not sure what you call those things. I have read online here and other sites that recommend a couple coats of paste wax. Others that recommend BLO and others that recommend shellac and then wax. I plan on using this saw so what would be the recommendation on treating the handle. One last question on the handle. It's just a little loose. There is less than 1/6" of play between the back and the handle. What are the chance of tightening the nuts will secure it? It's certainly useable now but I can imagine that it'll only get looser.


There is a permission issue or I would have posted these picture to the Gallery and I will post them there once the issue is resolved. But in the meantime I have some pics in a Facebook album. The link below should take you there. If not let me know as I’ll probably have a permissions issue there too.

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.4365394019419.2181784.1424966811&type=1&l=9548b5ea33

Any thoughts on what I found? Is it what it says it is? I’ve not seen any other pictures of a Brittain Hoole & Co trademark online.

Anyone have any other info on this company or this saw? I guess I’ll never know how it got itself to Bellingham, WA a 175 years after being made in Sheffield...if this is what it appears.

I’ve learn quite a bit reading thru some of the threads. You bunch are quite the knowledgeable brain trust.


Thanks for reading.

Bob

Edited to add: Link to Gallery, Ray fixed it. I hope this works - http://www.backsaw.net/cpg/thumbnails.php?album=100

I'll also add another "abuse" i inflicted on the saw was i sharpened it...and it cuts like a dream.

Bob

 

WhidbeyBob,

I'm pretty certain it's a handsaw!

Seriously, pretty nice old English backsaw with a London Pattern style handle. From the 1830s.

Decent user, IMO, sharpen it up and put it to some wood!

Teeth can be brittle on these old saws, be careful if/when you set them.

I will add that typically it was around 1820 when German Steel was stamped on the backs, but 1833 is close enough. Hard to pinpoint anything that narrow to a single year.

 

In HSMOB they date German Steel as up until 1820 and 1820 on as Spring Steel. This is why I said, you can never date something like that to a single year...unless there was some type of significant event in 1820 that caused iron mongers to change, I 'spose. And then some maker could have been a holdout and used German Steel after that point...who knows...

Definitely. The handle is spot on for that era, so it would seem to fit those dates mentioned in the OP's post. And it is a nice saw.

 

I put a Thomas Turner and Son (German Steel) on some time ago

http://www.backsaw.net/index.php?option=com_jfusion&Itemid=58&jfile=showthread.php&t=87

and this saw is definitely a lot later than 1820. I think that this is another case where HSMOB is less than 100% correct.

The WKfinetools link no longer exists

Ray's timeline has German steel up to about 1910 and which must be about right because I know I have the odd (poor quality) saw (unable to find at the moment) with German steel on it which is a typical 1880's+ cheapie.

It probably denoted quality early on when it was a groundbreaking product and then over the years the meaning changed - as meanings tend to do. I have a feeling that Simon thinks that later on German Steel denoted a lesser quality product but I wonder whether in the later C 19th it was a marketing job harking back to the original quality which the then tools did not really match.

Fred

 

Is this the WKfinetools link you were referring to?

 

Hi Bob,
Be very careful tightening split nuts, they have a nasty habit of stripping or even snapping off. There are only a couple of threads in the nut, which is thin, and the post is smaller in diameter than the later style saw nuts. Your nuts (don't go there) do appear to be in pretty good condition but I would still be gentle. A drop of penetrating oil on the tip of the post, and then wait until the next day would be good advice.

Toby

 

Hi Toby,

That is the link, yes - thanks. And a veritable mine of information it is too.

It also has an image of a Barber and Genn (see Kiwi's thread of the same name) and although the mark is not complete I cannot imagine a cast dot or a cast hyphen being in there.

Interesting.

I also endorse your point re the saw screws. I have had very mixed success when doing anything to them to the extent that on any serious saw, I no longer touch them. And as for trying to remove them, that is normally an unmitigated disaster. It is interesting how someone got them through the hole in the saw plate, but it is almost impossible to get them back through the same hole without terminal damage. A bit like little boys, iron railings and large ears.

If anyone knows the secret, please tell me.

Fred

 

Hi Bob,
Nice find and an uncommon namestamp.
Personally, I don't see any reason why you shouldn't sharpen and use it so long as you give it some respect for its history. I get a kick out of using ancient tools in my occasional woodworking forays. [tho some others have different opinions]
To tighten the handle you might use a clamp to squeeze the the handle cheeks together before attempting tightening the split nuts.
Tightening the screws might not work as the saw plate tends to cut a groove in the side of the brass screw shank once there is some movement, and this locks the screw in a position that doesn't easily tighten (this slot makes screw removal difficult too)
An additional method you might try is a tiny hardwood wedge driven down between the end of the back and the handle (This seems to be the system used by previous owners of several of my ancient saws, and seems to work for a while)
For handles, I usually clean off the surface dirt with a soap and water scrub, then dry, and finish with oil/steelwool/shellac/steelwool/paste wax, (except that for applewood handles I might omit the oil as it tends to darken the wood too much for my taste)
Hope you enjoy your great find. Thanks for sharing.

 

Thanks for the additional info and the tips on tightening and restoring the handle.

I will work on the handle this weekend and report back on how it goes. I'll post a couple more pics while I'm at it.

I've learned a lot about backsaw on this site. It's nice to know there are resources out in the world wide web like this.



Bob