Another reclining ampersand

Discussion in 'Forum: Saw Identification and Discussion' started by fred0325, Jul 12, 2013.

  1. fred0325

    fred0325 Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    1,084
    Hello all,

    This was described as a Newbould and Son and which, had it been correct would have put it up to 15 years earlier. It wasn't until I looked at the photographs that I realised that it was an "& Co". So instead of it being 1814 to 1821 it is 1822 up to about 1830.

    But the steel is still cast dot and the ampersand is still reclining and so that is some compensation. But it is a much more genuine saw than the overcleaned Mitchell of a few posts ago and for that one can but be glad.

    Fred
     

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  2. David

    David Most Valued Member

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    315
    Hello Fred,

    What a wonderful saw. I like the look of those thin handles that seem to show up on the early saws, before the grip got wider.

    And a great title for your post, although upon examination the ampersand seems to be in the act of falling, not yet, but soon to be, reclining.
    David
     
  3. Deesinister

    Deesinister Most Valued Member

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    60
    Hi Fred,
    Ive been trying to date and Identify this saw fro a while now. It has a weird ampersand that doesn't seem to have a top and is leaning back slightly(but this could just be a matter of how it was stamped.
    Thought you might like to see it.
    Apologies for my drawing but its sums up what I can see.

    Cheers
    Al
     

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  4. fred0325

    fred0325 Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    1,084
    Hi Al,

    If you look at my Mitchell and Thompson post you will see that I thought that my "&" was horizontal.

    "And if Simon reads this, if the mark between "Thompson" and "Co" represents an ampersand (and yes, I did have to look up what it meant) then mine must have been positively horizontal."

    My saw was 1797 or pre that. I don't want to get you too excited:) but if yours is an ampersand then it is horizontal too. I don't think that the "German Steel" means too much on its own as it was used over such a long time period, but your handle could be an early one a well.

    The one thing that does worry me a little is that you have three crowns, and whilst they can be on early saws, they are also on later ones.

    I suspect, unfotunately that you won't get a much better photo than you already have and so the name is probably lost.

    That is as far as I can go. We need an expert. Are there any out there? ;)

    Fred
     
  5. Deesinister

    Deesinister Most Valued Member

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    60
    Typeface dating

    Hi Fred,
    Yes the makers will probably remain a mystery which is infuriating. I have just bought a book on typefaces from 1550 - 1901. Apart from making me :"just plain weird" as my wife describes me;) , Im hoping it will help in the future for dating other tools (especially planes and chisels). Ill let you know if it contains any interesting info when I get it.(September time).

    As for the crowns I do think that if you find out how and when they were used and why, it could prove important. Apart from this forum I cant see any other discussion about these on the net.

    interesting stuff though.

    Al
     
  6. Underthedirt

    Underthedirt Most Valued Member

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    225
    I hope you don't mind if I add this Newbould & Co to your thread here Fred?
    It's 9" long & has a very angular boss, the teeth are aggressively filed with near 0° rake & sloped gullets, the plate is around 21 thou thick, the saw tooth border stamp is tiny- 1.8mm high x 19mm long, the spine is quite thinner than usual 5.5mm to 5mm thick & tapering.
    I love the hang angle on this saw, like some old duelling pistol.

    Regards

    Mari
     

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  7. David

    David Most Valued Member

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    315
    Hi Mari,
    A fine saw with a super mark. I agree about the handle; not quite the usual saw handle. Was it from the Donnelly Nashua auction last spring? I believe I saw just the same saw there. In any event, a great addition to your collection.
    David
     
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  8. David

    David Most Valued Member

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    315
    It looks perhaps like the second name is Howel. If so it might indicate a previous partnership, but who with I doubt we'll ever know. Another puzzle to keep us cross-eyed.
    David
     
  9. Underthedirt

    Underthedirt Most Valued Member

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    225
    Hi David, thanks your reply, yes your memory serves you right it did come from Nashua. I don't have another Newbould of that kind of era, so I'm very happy with it.

    Regards

    Mari
     
  10. Joe S

    Joe S Most Valued Member

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    Ray et al
    I figured I would pile on another saw that that looks exactly like Mari's Newbould saw. Other than the obvious lower handle mishap, there seems to be a pattern to the "angular boss' and "unusual saw handle" as David describes. It also has a 9 ' blade but I wouldn't want to give any description to an almost non existent tooth configuration. I find the steel back very square without any bevels and a subtle round top. I am also interested in what your ideas on age considering Simon suggested a 1780 time line considering the stamp. Fred thought it would have been considerably later.
    enjoy
    Joe S.
     

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  11. TraditionalToolworks

    TraditionalToolworks Most Valued Member

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    192
    Very nice saw Fred, and Mari's and Joe's saws are nice also. Don't find too many dovetail saws in the wild. The hang is extremely high on both Mari's and Joe's but Fred's handle is quite a bit lower. I have made some joinery saws with a high hang, and I like it. It really depends on positioning when cutting, and how you like to stand at the work.

    Alan