Another reclining ampersand

Discussion in 'Forum: Saw Identification and Discussion' started by fred0325, Jul 12, 2013.

  1. fred0325

    fred0325 Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    1,082
    Hello all,

    This was described as a Newbould and Son and which, had it been correct would have put it up to 15 years earlier. It wasn't until I looked at the photographs that I realised that it was an "& Co". So instead of it being 1814 to 1821 it is 1822 up to about 1830.

    But the steel is still cast dot and the ampersand is still reclining and so that is some compensation. But it is a much more genuine saw than the overcleaned Mitchell of a few posts ago and for that one can but be glad.

    Fred
     

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  2. David

    David Most Valued Member

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    263
    Hello Fred,

    What a wonderful saw. I like the look of those thin handles that seem to show up on the early saws, before the grip got wider.

    And a great title for your post, although upon examination the ampersand seems to be in the act of falling, not yet, but soon to be, reclining.
    David
     
  3. Deesinister

    Deesinister Most Valued Member

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    58
    Hi Fred,
    Ive been trying to date and Identify this saw fro a while now. It has a weird ampersand that doesn't seem to have a top and is leaning back slightly(but this could just be a matter of how it was stamped.
    Thought you might like to see it.
    Apologies for my drawing but its sums up what I can see.

    Cheers
    Al
     

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  4. fred0325

    fred0325 Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    1,082
    Hi Al,

    If you look at my Mitchell and Thompson post you will see that I thought that my "&" was horizontal.

    "And if Simon reads this, if the mark between "Thompson" and "Co" represents an ampersand (and yes, I did have to look up what it meant) then mine must have been positively horizontal."

    My saw was 1797 or pre that. I don't want to get you too excited:) but if yours is an ampersand then it is horizontal too. I don't think that the "German Steel" means too much on its own as it was used over such a long time period, but your handle could be an early one a well.

    The one thing that does worry me a little is that you have three crowns, and whilst they can be on early saws, they are also on later ones.

    I suspect, unfotunately that you won't get a much better photo than you already have and so the name is probably lost.

    That is as far as I can go. We need an expert. Are there any out there? ;)

    Fred
     
  5. Deesinister

    Deesinister Most Valued Member

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    58
    Typeface dating

    Hi Fred,
    Yes the makers will probably remain a mystery which is infuriating. I have just bought a book on typefaces from 1550 - 1901. Apart from making me :"just plain weird" as my wife describes me;) , Im hoping it will help in the future for dating other tools (especially planes and chisels). Ill let you know if it contains any interesting info when I get it.(September time).

    As for the crowns I do think that if you find out how and when they were used and why, it could prove important. Apart from this forum I cant see any other discussion about these on the net.

    interesting stuff though.

    Al
     
  6. Underthedirt

    Underthedirt Most Valued Member

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    205
    I hope you don't mind if I add this Newbould & Co to your thread here Fred?
    It's 9" long & has a very angular boss, the teeth are aggressively filed with near 0° rake & sloped gullets, the plate is around 21 thou thick, the saw tooth border stamp is tiny- 1.8mm high x 19mm long, the spine is quite thinner than usual 5.5mm to 5mm thick & tapering.
    I love the hang angle on this saw, like some old duelling pistol.

    Regards

    Mari
     

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  7. David

    David Most Valued Member

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    263
    Hi Mari,
    A fine saw with a super mark. I agree about the handle; not quite the usual saw handle. Was it from the Donnelly Nashua auction last spring? I believe I saw just the same saw there. In any event, a great addition to your collection.
    David
     
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  8. David

    David Most Valued Member

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    263
    It looks perhaps like the second name is Howel. If so it might indicate a previous partnership, but who with I doubt we'll ever know. Another puzzle to keep us cross-eyed.
    David
     
  9. Underthedirt

    Underthedirt Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    205
    Hi David, thanks your reply, yes your memory serves you right it did come from Nashua. I don't have another Newbould of that kind of era, so I'm very happy with it.

    Regards

    Mari