This is another saw that I could use some help with. It is a small panel saw measuring 22 1/4 inches along the toothline and filed 9 ppi crosscut. As you can see, the tote is of the London pattern. There is no medallion, and only one of the three original split nut screws remains. Unfortunately, the saw has badly rusted. Rust has eroded the maker's stamp, making the left side of the stamp unreadable. The right side, however, is fairly clear. The stamp contains two lines. The upper line is the maker's name, and it is in an arch or semi-circle. The last name is WHITE. The last letter of the first name is S, and the letter preceding that may be an E or A. The first name is about the same length as the last name, because the break between the names falls right at the height of the arch. Therefore, something like James, Jonas, or Thomas may be a possibility. The second line of the stamp is, I presume, the location where made, and it ends in YMOUTH. I assume this is either Plymouth or Weymouth, and either would fit symmetrically in the stamp. I can find no other markings of any type, either on the plate or tote. Any help with identification and dating would be greatly appreciated. Bob
Maybe a relative? White, Charles Edward (, saw manufacturer (Russell, Horsfield & White)). Residing at h. 21 Beech Hill Road, in 1787. Recorded in: Whites Directory of Sheffield & Rotherham - 1911.
Don't think this is him either. White, Herbert James (, saw manufacturer (Russell, Horsfield & White)). Residing at h. 26 Adelaide Road, in 1787. Recorded in: Whites Directory of Sheffield & Rotherham - 1911.
After agonizing over this stamp for a long time, under various kinds of lighting and magnification, I'm 70% certain it says Thomas White, Plymouth. I can see the TH at the beginning, and S at the end, and the length is correct. I believe I can see the L in Plymouth, and the length is also correct.
Hi Bob, You are probably right with Thomas White, Plymouth. I have found just such a person at 165 Union Street and he is an ironmonger. This is on p.478 of Kellys directory of Devon 1880. Fred
This source also lists the following: "Thomas White of Plymouth, ironmonger" So this is a branded saw and Thomas White was a tool and hardware dealer in the booming 19th century town of Plymouth. This saw came from a ship carpenter's chest, and Plymouth being a bustling sea port and ship building center, this all makes sense. This begs the question of who actually made the saw, where and when. This is probably impossible to know, but any speculation?
Hi, I think that you are right about not being able to find the maker. I think that there is slightly less than a cat in hell's chance of knowing. There were probably 10's or 100's of thousands of similar/identical saws made. It will be interesting to see whether Simon has it catalogued or not. Fred
Not much to add, very nice bit of detective work by Fred and Summerfi The only way you would know for sure who made it, would be to find a record of a particular sawmaker having sold to Thomas White, that's not as far fetched as it might sound, although pretty unlikely.. some sparse records have survived, like the records of the etching transfers made for Taylor Brothers. Just going by appearances I would have said mid 1800's, but I found a notice in the London Gazette that might move that estimate to a later date. Of course that might be his son? Regards Ray
Hi Bob, You did well with the ID there. One trick that sometimes helps me is to lightly spray WD40 over the etch or stamp, and then tilt and move the saw to let that settle into a thin even layer. It captures the light differently and creates different contrasts. Whenever I try impatiently spreading it out with my fingers I end up with a streaky uneven coating. I haven't tried a plastic card or similar. Cheers, Paul
Paul, thanks for that tip. I'll give it a try next time. This source lists for sale a Rabone folding rule that, in addition to having the Hockley Abbey trademark, also has the inscription T. White Ironmonger Plymouth. According to this source, Rabone moved into the factory at Hockley Abbey in 1871. So we know, then, that Thomas White was in business after 1871, and probably before that as well, and as Ray's post indicated, he died in 1917. Unless, of course, as Ray pointed out this is referring to Thomas Jr. I found this reference to Thomas' son William dying in battle in 1918 at age 18. I know it is the same Thomas White because the same address is given. I've found no reference to a son named Thomas, however, so I suspect the Thomas we've read about is the same Thomas who sold my saw in Plymouth. That, of course, still says nothing about who made the saw, and I expect that will always remain hidden. About all I can conclude is that the saw was likely made in the second half of the 19th century.