Webster

Ray et al.

This little 10 inch backsaw has yielded little in the way of finding a maker from the data and usual sources. Open handled, beech, two screw, with a steel back. Marked WEBSTER , German Steel. HSMof B has three entries of Webster, William Webster being the likely candidate for the maker of the saw. Webster and Johnson, 1839-1848 at Sycamore Works. The 1839 Directory also offers this entry.
Webster J. and Co, 7 Pond St Lead Mills.....Whitesmiths, Weighing and Comb Machine Manufactures and Sole inventers of Saw Handle Slitting Machine.
Does anyone have a saw with the whole Webster and Johnson stamp or was this a second line for someone, (maybe to practice handle slitting which I doubt very much)?...

Enjoy
Joe S.

 

Hi Joe,

I can't add much except to say that this is one of those HSMOB entries where the Webster (only) c.1840 and Webster William c.1850 only have SAW after the entry to signify "saw in the hands of a collector". And which has often been a dicey dating attribution at best. He also has Webster and Johnson dated by Kenneth Roberts and which I cannot find in a cursory look through the online directories. (There are a lot of Websters).

There is also a Webster, Vincent and William who are table knife, scissor, razor and cutlery manufacturers and also merchants (in Whites 1833 p.281) and there is a William fitting this description who is in the 1849 and 1852 directories. There is also an entry for V and W in Pigots 1829 but they are not there in 1825

The reason that I went back to the 1833 directory was because I think that this form of stamp (simple and low on the back) is a little earlier than the 1840's/50's referred to in HSMOB. Possibly 1830's or even back into the 1820's??

Anyway, as always from you, a class find.

Fred

Where did you find the 1839 directory? I cannot find it in the online ones.

 

I don't know if this is anything, but I will show it just in case.

And.

From HERE.
And.

WILLIAM WEBSTER
Sheffield
Succeeded to Webster & Johnson at Sycamore Works, 14 Sycamore St, Sheffield (1864-1897). Became William Webster & Son c. 1870

And I found Webster William & Son, Sycamore Works, 14 Sycamore st. Sheffield HERE.

Toby

 

Webster & Johnsong Rip Saw



Here.

Toby

 

Thanks Everyone

Ray, I think this makes the most sense when there is only one name on the back of the saw. I didn't think it was that early but you can never tell. As Toby showed, the extra name was probably a main fixture in the later union a thus more of a cutlery designation. The Sycamore location has always been a constant.

Fred, I found this a great tool.
http://www.sheffieldhistory.co.uk/f...ctories-available-on-this-and-other-websites/

(hope it works)

I am truly amazed at the amount of work and dedication that goes into the recording of all these directories and they still aren't all complete. Really has made life easier and I thank them.

Regards
Joe S.

 

Hi Joe,

" I didn't think it was that early but you can never tell. "

I really do think that it is probably nearer the late 1820'2/early to mid 1830.

I attach 3 photo's below of some saws that I have put on here and, rightly or wrongly we have dated them to around this time period.

The marks are much of the style of yours, but all with cast(dot) or cast(hyphen) and which, as long as the saws are English, is a good indicator of the earlier part of this time period. .

It is a pity, in a sense that yours was German steel as, had it been Cast, the presence or absence of a dot would have been an indicator as to age.

Never mind. Here they are. ( The cast steel only one is on by mistake. I can't get rid of it but it is the Marsden).

Fred

I've just noticed that the Marsden is not cast(dot) but Simon (via Ray) has Wm Marsden down as 1825 to 1828 and it is reasonably likely that this is my Wm Marsden. And this mark is the closest of the three to yours.

 

I've not found Webster v easy to get straight either!

Entries in the book at the moment:

WEBSTER, John & Co SHEFFIELD
7 Leadmill Road 1841
Manufacturers of whitesmiths’ turning lathes, screw stocks, comb and weighing machines, and foreign and fancy tools, circular saws, spindles etc. This description suggests a factoring enterprise.

WEBSTER & JOHNSON SHEFFIELD
Sycamore Works, Sycamore Sreet 1845-1846
It is uncertain whether this Johnson was the same as or related to any of the several other Sheffield saw makers of that name; Webster seems to have continued as below. Tweedale notes that from 1843-1846, William Webster was in a partnership with a Christopher Johnson, who may have been the same as the prominent cutler.

WEBSTER, William
14 Sycamore Street <1852-1862>
Sycamore Works, 14 Sycamore Street <1879-1884>
1856: merchant, and table, pen and pocket knife, and scissor manufacturer.
1862: merchant, and manufacturer of pen, pocket, and table knives, scissors, razors, saws, files etc. 1879: cutlery manufacturers and factors.
Never listed with the saw makers, and it seems likely that he was predominantly a cutler, a major one (Master Cutler in 1851), with offices in London and Glasgow. His son retired in 1894 and the business was sold to Harrison Brothers & Howson.

I've seen saws by W Webster and by W&J, but not by JW, and I don't have the earlier W Webster partnership as likely to produce any saws. It was not uncommon for partnerships to use the name of one partner only (the main aim being to tease the users of backsaw.net). If I had to date this I'd guess at c1840, but whether to go back a bit to the two Websters, or forward a bit to JW - anyone got a coin?
The website with the mis-spelled W&J mark has contained some highly unlikely statements about British saws for several years, the person who runs it being apparently impervious to suggestions of a different interpretation!

 

It's 'only' a handsaw but I've just received this from the Brown's tool auction in the US in April ...

 

Man! That is a handsome saw! Good find Paul.

Toby