Hi everyone, my names Chris, this is only my seecond post but i sure have spent alot of time reading thats for sure. I have just got hold of an old spear n jackson 4tpi rip saw which i think should have a fair age to it. I'm still not clued up on posting photos but it has the four split nut screws the top one being smaller at 7/16" with the others 9/16" and a 1" flat plain medallion. Its got the biggest nib of any of my saws being about 5/16" long. What i'd like to ask you guys is what does the plain medallion tell me about its history and also aswell as the usual stamps there is to the left of the spear and jackson stamp a stamp WASTER? What does this also tell me of its age and history.
Hi Chris, I would love to see a photo of the saw. I don't normally "do" S and J's, but I am not sure that I have ever seen a blank medallion on one before. From what you say about the number and size of the saw screws the best that I can do at the moment is to put it 1860 to about 1914. With a photo there are others on here who could tell you a lot more about it than I can. Posting an image is not hard. As I have said before, if I can do it anyone can. When you post your reply scroll down until you come to the "manage attachments" box. Click on it and then click browse. Find your photo's and upload them. I have found that with this site, it doesn't like large file photo's and so I take mine with as few a pixels as my camera will allow which I think is about 620x 480. The "Waster" sounds even more fascinating than the blank medallion. I am looking forward to seeing it. Fred
Hi Chris, Thanks for the photo's. I think that the mark, with the arched "Spear and Jackson" and the italic script puts the saw firmly into the 1860's - ish!! I love those blank medallions, they set a saw off really well. As far as your "Waster" goes, I will hazard a guess that one of the owners seriously upset someone and who then decided to let all and sundry know what he thought of said owner. I don't think that it was done during the manufacturing process. Although it would be even more fascinating if it was a manufacturer's stamp. Lovely saw with a fascinating history irrespective of the origins of the "waster". Fred
Thanks for the feedback Fred, i have found on an old thread where WASTER as a vertical stamp is mentioned but only in passing, i"ll be interested to see what other members think. Cheers...Chris
Hey Chris It was a saw I posted some time ago with the vertical "waster". Hadn't come up with anything then because it was the only example I had come across. Now that it is on another makers, I might suggest it was a designation that there might have been something wrong wrong with the blade but not enough to throw it away. Simon also suggetsed that Hill ,late Howell had other companies making saws for them and this was made for them by Spear and Jackson. I can't say it was second quality because that denotes something different.Might even be before second quality product lines that companies later came up with because they do look like relatively early saws. Interesting that there isn't a Spear and Jackson medallion and this also might be an indication of its quality when it went out the door so "waster" was stamped into it. My WAG anyways and that could be all wet. Great looking saw Chris. 1850-60s? Joe S.
Its a better explanation than mine, Joe and if there are two examples of the term then it may hold a fair bit of water. But it does, of course beg the question "What was wrong with the blade?" It can't be anything that was able to be remedied easily or it would have been done. That only leaves the quality of the steel. But then again , it was still used! Fascinating. Fred
Thanks for the interesting feedback guys, lets hope some more wasters surface in the future that will add to, or solve the riddle. Chris
You've got a rarity here, Chris! It's the first S&J I've seen with the word Waster on it, and from the style of the handle and the mark I think it's about 1850-1860. The word waster means, as previous posts indicate, that the tool is defective in some way - but what way?? The word is struck faintly, showing that it was applied late on in the manufacturing stage ( "bright struck" was the term used in the trades, ie when the steel had been finished and polished), whereas the other words are deeply struck, applied in the early stages when the steel was annealed only, and hence relatively soft. There are some other letters below the makers' name, but I can't read them - often the words Cast Steel were added bright struck in that position, although why that should have been is so far unexplained. The other unusual feature is the blind medallion - another first for S&J as far as I'm concerned, and I would guess that once the blade had been found to be defective, the handle maker (probably an in-house one, as S&J were such a big firm) was told to put in the cheaper form of medallion. The Oxford English Dictionary definition of waster is an article of manufacture that is defective or inferior, with the earliest instance 1800, but the records of Joseph Wilson, Sheffield saw maker 1768-1775, use it, and I've seen it marked on saws by several Sheffield firms of the 19th century. It might well have been the case that an employee would be allowed to buy the saw very cheaply - and then re-sell it asserting with inside knowledge that there was absolutely nothing wrong with it. I've got a Groves hand saw which looks perfect, but which must have been over hardened, as two of today's saw doctors have pronounced it unsharpenable!