This is my first post to this forum, but I have spent some time reading the threads and admiring the restoring efforts of the members. The reason for my first is twofold - firstly, I would like to know if anyone has come across the saw maker W. Chance Son & Co. I have inherited a saw from this maker from my father-in-law, who was a cabinetmaker in Adelaide, Australia. The only information I have been able to find about this firm is that it traded as a gunsmith in London between 1842 and 1856, which suggests that the saw is at least 150 years old. My father-in-law was clearly not the first owner of the saw, as it has a different set of initials carved on the handle and he only started his working life in the 1920s. Any background information on the maker and why they would branch from gun manufacture into saw making would be welcome. Secondly, I would appreciate viewpoints on how to best treat the saw, both to make it usable and also preserve its historical value. The following photographs highlight key aspects of its current condition - first the stamp on the blade - under the company name the words are: Double Refined Cast Steel Warranted [/url] WChance_etching by oddkristensen, on Flickr[/IMG] The saw blade seems to have been finished in a blue colour - maybe the gunsmith legacy? The medallion displays the UK coat of arms, which would confirm that this is a saw made in the UK: [/url] WChance saw medallion by oddkristensen, on Flickr[/IMG] One of the sides is relatively free from rust, but the other side has a lot of rust on it - the good side: [/url] WChance saw best side by oddkristensen, on Flickr[/IMG] The handle is riveted on, with two of the rivets set in copper and one in brass. The medallion is fixed with a split screw. The handle, which looks like beech, is quite dirty, but with little damage. I'm not sure if the finish is still the original or if it has been been refinished by previous owners. The blade is 28" long, with 5 teeth per inch. The teeth are in good shape and would only need to be jointed and sharpened to make it cut. Removing the rust on the inferior side with sandpaper will damage the blueing, so to preserve the appearance, I will need to reapply gun blueing agent. Comments and observations welcome, Odd Kristensen
Hi Odd, Welcome to the Forum, I hope someone here can help with the maker, I've found nothing more than what you already have. It should be carefully and sympathetically restored, and I'd not go overboard on the cleaning, perhaps just a good rub down with Renaissance Wax, joint and sharpen the teeth. I don't know much about re-applying blue, but there are chemical cold bluing methods that might work... Ray
W Chance, Son, & Co are listed in the 1850s Directories as "Merchants and Factors" in Birmingham (They also had an office in London, where they are listed as "American Merchants"). As Merchants and Factors they are unlikely to have made your saw (nor the guns. They don't seem to be listed as sawmakers or as gunsmiths). They would have been middlemen having various merchandise made for them, primarily for export to North America, but likely also to all British colonies (including Oz). Google shows merchandise with their name stamp included saws, wood planes, and guns. I think your saw could have been made by one of the Birmingham sawmakers (maybe Atkin & Sons), or might have come from any of the large Sheffield saw works of the 1850s. The rivets are likely replacements for the original screws. You could clean it up a bit, sharpen it, and use it. I don't think I'd try blueing it though. (I'd live with whatever change to the existing blade colouring that resulted from just smoothing off the rust with a scotchbrite pad, or 400 grit sandpaper. You could try a small patch first to see if it changes the colouring significantly )
Regarding the bluing, I've dealt with two saws that were blued. The first was not rusted very much and was more of a cleanup. I used mineral spirits with 0000 grade steel wool to clean the plate, and the bluing was not adversely affected. The second saw was badly rusted and pitted. I sanded it down to bright steel, but the pitting was so bad that it looked horrible. I decided it would look better blued again, so I used a cold blue made for guns. It was easy to apply and worked well. I'm still unsure if the bluing on these saws was intentionally applied when they were new or if the color developed over time through oxidation.
W Chance Son & Co rip saw Your comments regarding the saw's origin are very helpful. The practice of rebranding seems to be lot older than I thought. Also, when I wrote my post, I wasn't aware that the eight crossed arrows within the medallion engraving is part of the Sheffield coat of arms, so it may be safe to assume that the saw was made there? I guess it is impossible to establish who actually made the saw, though I understand Richard Groves was one maker who used the term 'Double Refined'. I agree that the rivets are replacements for the original screws - the use of different materials and the fact that the riveting is not done very neatly suggest this. I have scraped off some the rust before working on it with 400 grit paper - unfortunately, to remove the rust completely, there will be bright metal showing in patches, especially on one side of the plate and it is not a great look. I have some old gun blue and will try it in small area first.
W Chance Son & Co rip saw As mentioned in my reply to kiwi, to remove the rust I will get down to bare metal in patches, so I will experiment with gun blue. It seems difficult to control the degree of colouring - the liquid works very quickly once applied, but I guess rubbing with steel wool after applying it will help blend the colouring. Your suggestion re oxidation over time could well be correct - the dark colour is actually also colouring the rust - it was only after I started working on the plate that I realised the extent of the rust problem.
Before applying the bluing, clean the plate well with a strong solvent like acetone. This will help to achieve a more uniform color.
Ray, You mention Renaissance Wax - I know Gilly Stephenson in Western Australia makes a product called Gun Polish which claims to protect both wood and metal parts - it's a bit cheaper than RW and available in Australia through the large hardware chains - has there been a comparison between the products on the Forum? Also, back in 2008 you posted an entry called '1901 trademarks'. Within it is an image depicting the trademark of J. B. Priest, who manufactured brass medallions for saws. It looks very similar to the medallion on my saw. Is there a clearer picture available and is there a known link between their medallions and certain saw makers?
Hi Odd, I bought renaissance wax from ebay, based on the recommendations i'd read. I've used dozens of different waxes of the years, for different purposes. If it's a new saw handle, I'll use shellac and beeswax, or shellawax. But I'm not aware of any comparative study.. Renaissance Wax is almost universally preferred by professional restorers in museums etc.. The warranted superior medallion comes in two distinct flavours, the British one with the coat of arms, and the American one with the eagle. Both were used on saws that were made with branding other than the makers primary brand. Sort of a generic medallion if you will. There are other variants, Warranted Extra.. Warranted Good, Warranted Special, and of course Warranted Superior.. Ray
Hi Summerfi and everyone else, I am not too sure about the content relating to the British W/S medallions, but I would give someone-else's right arm for the Barber and Genn London Spring saw medallion. Does anyone know who owns it and if they want to sell it? Fred
Fred, I believe this is the original source of that photo. I don't know the person who first posted it, but his name is given so perhaps you could track him down. Bob
Oh this reminds me. Please god say someone here bought this, which ended while work distracted me for half an hour ... http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/vintage-...5T2hQVRo0M6r0WeNO4z1c%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc