Vintage US handsaw +1

Discussion in 'Forum: Saw Identification and Discussion' started by pmcgee, May 9, 2013.

  1. pmcgee

    pmcgee Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    184
    Sorry to have been away from the site, but I have come crawling back asking for help.

    Fred posted a saw in April I see, questioning his judgement and dispensing of the hard-earned shekels ... I think I can to sympathise.

    I'm sure I paid over the odds for this, but supply is pretty limited down here in Oz and my curiosity got the better of me ...

    It was the handle that interested me. I 'showed' this to Ray a while back, but he selfishly promptly went off I think to hospital instead of dropping everything and chasing up information that would benefit only me and not him.
    Well, if that's your attitude. :)

    I was expecting I might find a stamped mark ... but look and look I can only find one very weak possibility.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2013
  2. pmcgee

    pmcgee Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    184
    Clutching at straws?


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     
  3. pmcgee

    pmcgee Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    184
    The "+1" just refers to this little Groves


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     
  4. TobyC

    TobyC Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    216
    If it's an American saw, it's post-1874.

    LINK

    Toby
     
  5. TobyC

    TobyC Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    216
    That label screw may not be original, the wood is a little rough around the edges, what does the nut look like?

    Crawl back anytime Paul! :D

    Toby
     
  6. pmcgee

    pmcgee Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    184
  7. TobyC

    TobyC Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    216
    Or....it may be the only one that is original....just been tightened a bit!

    Toby
     
  8. pmcgee

    pmcgee Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    184
    I haven't seen a medallion with the centre post obviously through the front like that before.

    This handle of Mike Stemple's is closer to it than anything I've seen before receiving this saw. (http://positiverake.com/?p=381)


    [​IMG]
     
  9. pmcgee

    pmcgee Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    184
    Bakewell ... also a bit similar ...

    [​IMG]
     
  10. TobyC

    TobyC Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    216
  11. pmcgee

    pmcgee Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    184
    Last edited: May 10, 2013
  12. pmcgee

    pmcgee Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    184
    Thanks Toby - I nearly missed your medallion link.

    Here's a couple more of the Short-Fat-Egg handle style ... less close to my handle ... but perhaps I have a better idea of the time period now(?) if not the actual maker.

    [​IMG]
     
  13. pmcgee

    pmcgee Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    184
  14. pmcgee

    pmcgee Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    184
    And - at risk of the straw/camel effect - http://boards.ancestry.co.uk/surnames.platt/244/mb.ashx

    "Looking for the parents of
    - Thomas H. Platt B. 1 July 1858, D 18 Apr 1937-Phila, Pa.
    Also the parents of
    - Mary (Platt)Welsh, B. July 1863-D. 25 Dec 1895. Phila. Pa.
    Info concerning siblings of the above two."

    Query by ... "I. Holroyd e mail irenejh@uswest.net"

    Interesting.

    And there is this /reply/ ... (nope it involves a different message): http://boards.ancestry.co.uk/surnames.platt/244.285/mb.ashx

    I have sent a message to both people (12 years later ... you never know).

    Cheers,
    Paul
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2013
  15. Joe S

    Joe S Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    371
    Hey Paul
    The American saws with the Warranted Superior medallions can be so hard to place unless you can really see that etch or stamp. There are so many variations on the eagle and to say it was from one company is very tough. I couldn't see a whole lot on the plate either from your pics. So frustrating isn't it.
    I think the Platt, Cox, Holroyd manufacture predates your saw a little and it was a very short run. Here are two pics of that saw before I sent it to Mike. Your handle has a more sophisticated look to it compared to that one.
    The T W I Groves saw is a completely different animal. You will notice there is no medallion as is this Richardson and Co (Fullton saw works) saw, both made around the same time. Posts completely through the brass is a very atypical thing and Mike has done a study and article on the saws.
    Sorry I can't help with the naming of yours but it probably won't be some of those you might be hoping are. . Fun "ain't it".
    Still a great handle Paul and keep sending pics of new finds.
    Cheers
    Joe S.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: May 10, 2013
  16. pmcgee

    pmcgee Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    184
    Yeaahh. :) There's really very very little if anything there.
    It is only from seeing other saws that I get the feeling that if there was something there once, that's probably where it was.

    The plate is very thin now.
    Can you say more likely to be heavier (limited technique/technology) or thinner (frugal with materials) from back to that sort of dates?
    Or was it just anything goes/horses for courses?

    Not hoping at all ... I was completely ignorant of these SFE-shaped handles before this saw arrived, so it was interesting and educational to whip around the internet speculating. I'm happy to get a very rough sort of idea of time and place for the saw ... equally if it is/was a K-Mart version of some of the other makers saws that I came across as anything more well documented.

    It's excellent :) plus I was able to put a maker to my W Wilkins NY saw that I like very much.

    Along with the Webster handsaw I received a Robert Waldo handsaw, so I'll add my pics to that previous thread a bit later.

    Cheers and thanks,
    Paul
     
  17. pmcgee

    pmcgee Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    184
    I didn't know before recently that saws age like wine :)

    Several saws now have - after a certain time period - revealed more than they had before after sometime between careful examinations.

    I had picked up this 'SFE' saw to take some photos of the grain direction in handles ... and out of the blue saw a '25' and (I thought) another letter ... probably an 'A'.

    It was only when looking at the photos that I realised it was in fact a 'star'.

    Step by step :)

    Paul

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     
  18. Joe S

    Joe S Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    371
    Hey Paul
    I think you found the right clue when you found the star. You were probably also on the right track also when you thought it was a Platt and Holroyd saw. The three stars were typical of the saws the came from the Sing Sing facility and Platt and Holroyd were part of it. There were a few names associated with this production and it has been one of Mike Stemple's major areas of study. If you haven't seen Mike's photo album, here it is again.
    https://plus.google.com/photos/116740232904988541224/albums?banner=pwa
    He is very helpful when it comes to this passion. There was A.F Shotwell, Courtland, Platt & Holroyd all with the letter "a" who produced saws with three stars around the stamp. I look at the "A" and think it may be another part of a star. Many had #s stamped into the plate also yet I haven't seen the 25. The only distinctive #"25" I have seen with regularity is the Bakewell, later Wheeler Madden Clemsen Number 25s but this I don't think is one of those. I have never seen a Bakewell with a star but then again I haven't seen everything. Invariablty they also had Bakewell Medallions where Sing Sing saws really didn't have a medallion specific to a company.
    Hope this helps and it gets you farther down the road on the identification.
    Joe S.
     
  19. pmcgee

    pmcgee Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    184
    Thanks for the info and connections - I had not at all made that mental leap - although if you zapped me with a cattle-prod I might have been able to remember the stars on the Sing Sing saws.

    I only meant that what I thought was an "A" is actually the top point/arm of the star. My brain also sees bits and pieces of letters scattered all over - which is probably (a) entirely imagined, and (b) indicative of the static on the screen in my head.

    Immeasurably, thank you - and not just because my quantum leaps in understanding are exactly that ... on a quantum scale ... ie measurable in quantities of 10^(large negative number) :D

    Here are some on Mike's photos of star stampings ... the single star Shotwell looks closest, but other saws would seem closer judged by the handles.

    Shotwell

    [​IMG]

    Platt & Holroyd - stars small vs number size

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Cortland Wood

    [​IMG]