Unusual Panel Saw by the American Saw Co.

Discussion in 'Forum: Saw Identification and Discussion' started by wiktor48, Jul 26, 2014.

  1. David

    David Most Valued Member

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    Here are two more examples for the mix. The first is from an English table saw die-stamped "Rosling / Cast Steel" surrounded by three crowns. The second is from an American saw with a partially readable die stamp (which I show). The handle reminds me of those of Wheeler, Madden & Clemson and of some saws made by Cortland Wood, with the top edge gradually sliding down to the hound's tooth. Somewhere I have another saw of the same handle shape and medallion that's etched with the name of a Boston hardware dealer. I think the name is Dowse. I'll keep looking for it.
     

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  2. wiktor48

    wiktor48 Most Valued Member

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    97
    David, this is absolutely marvelous! Another step forward!

    The "Rosling / Cast Steel" is a brand name used by Beardshaw & Son and I mentioned this in the article.

    The second saw could be a saw made by Monhagen Saw Works - Wheeler, Madden & Clemson. The handle, as you noted, is similar to handles used on many of their saws. The stamp leads me to believe that this is No. 11 - H. Millson & Co. It is in their 1860 catalog - see attached image from the catalog. There is no saw that I can recall at the moment with No. 11 designation, but MSW. Although the shape of the handle in the catalog is different but I would not put any money on image accurately represented in their catalog of 1860.

    I also found another view of the H. Millson & Co. saw in the 1864 Bliven, Mead & Co. catalog - second image.

    Thanks so much... I will appreciate very much if you find another of your saws with this medallion. There was a hardware company Bigelow & Dowse in Boston. In 1873 the firm name was Macomber, Bigelow & Dowse. In 1894 the name was changed to Bigelow & Dowse.
     

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    Last edited: Aug 19, 2014
  3. David

    David Most Valued Member

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    263
    Well, I haven't found the Dowse saw yet, but I did remember this one. It's an early Henry Diston (note the uncommon misspelling on the back). The WS medallion is the same as all the others, with the 8 stars rather than the 13 stars on his first medallion.
     

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  4. wiktor48

    wiktor48 Most Valued Member

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    David, you are a Master, or should I say the Master!

    Very nice... so it appears that Disston did use this medallion at the early years.. and maybe into 1850s...

    Just to make sure everybody else knows this: the early Disston medallion has an eagle head turned the other way - see pic. Unfortunately, I don't have a larger size of this medallion. I will try to dig the saw out for better picture.

    David, you might think about attaching the stamp mark to this post, but it is not there - the Diston, miss-stamped mark.

    Thanks very much for all you do. I will send you PM - please respond.

    08/22/2014
    Here is a bit better picture of the Disston early medallion. It is a bit different than one on the left.
     

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    Last edited: Aug 22, 2014
  5. ray

    ray Administrator Staff Member

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    619
    Now there's an interesting twist... I would never have expected an early Disston connection?
    It looks like an interesting avenue of research. :)

    I am struck by the similarity between the early Disston Medallions and the USMC uniform buttons. The eagle design dates to the late 1700's and features a fouled anchor, rather than the more traditional arrows of war, and olive branch of peace.

    These things are often overlaid with heavy symbolic meaning which ( If it could be understood) might provide a clue to what the origins of the WS medallion actually are..

    Why 8 stars on the WS version? There were initially 13 states at the time of the Declaration of Independance.... What about confederacy?... no there were 7 states in the original confederacy, joined by 4 more shortly after the confederacy formed.. So I can't see why 8 stars? Might it have just been a mistake.. Some how connected with the eagle facing the opposite way and the arrows in the dexter talon...

    Seems like there is some symbolism going on there that doesn't match up... (Love mysteries :) )

    I wonder if it might be worthwhile posting a query on one of the forums that specialise in military uniform history?

    Regards
    Ray
     

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    Last edited: Aug 20, 2014
  6. wiktor48

    wiktor48 Most Valued Member

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    Wow... It is an unexpected twist...!

    I have to admit that a few posts earlier I dismissed the notion of some meaning to the number of stars on the medallions. I am humbled and admit my ignorance. I also have to admit that I am beginning to see clearly and accept the power of group thinking. This is very important experience to me.

    Ray, I remember one old post by you on the issue of medallion design and possible connection to military or something along these lines, but I can’t find it now. Can you help?

    This is one very interesting thread that I would like to explore further. Thanks so much for this, Ray.
     
  7. David

    David Most Valued Member

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    263
    I've always understood (from where I couldn't say) that what was most important with the eagle was that it was looking away from the arrows of war and looking towards the olive branch. I don't think them being on the left or right matters so much.
     
  8. wiktor48

    wiktor48 Most Valued Member

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    97
    Here is another Disston saw with the medallion of our interest.
     

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  9. Joe S

    Joe S Most Valued Member

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    328
    Ray et al.
    This thread morphed into more about medallions a few years ago than about an interesting saw that I found and Wiktor was good enough to invest some space on his site to. Well it seemed I wasn't seeing the complete saw and the reason for Emerson's Patent until another extant blade was later presented by Ray. Years pass and low and behold, a recent local auction gives me an opportunity to find a very good example of the American Saw Company's foray into 19th century saw design. The Patent blade design was inventive and probably had merit with larger and thick blades but when it came to hand saws, lacked in practical strength and inevitably disappeared. All the examples show serious tooth fracture and this is probably why my original saw hasn't the patent holes below the teeth. The user had surely had enough and filed them all off so they had some functioning saw that was probably expensive to purchase. Everything about this saw is exactly the same as my original, right down to handle size, medallion and etch. The second example from Ray has a different handle, (I think) since it is hard to see for sure from the picture. I present the original saw.
    enjoy
    Joe S.
     

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