Hello all, I have had the backsaw for some time but haven't got around to putting it on this site but when I bought the handsaw at my local car boot sale last Sunday I thought that I would put them on together. I don't think that there is any great mystery about these two. The backsaw is a very nice example (I think from North America, where else for a saw of this quality), and the handsaw ( an altogether poorer example) was red rust when I got it with n'er a name in sight. But, of course the best thing about these saws is that there are quite narrow dates for them. HSMOB has them at 1828 to 1829 and so they probably fall somewhere between the 1825 and the 1833 directories. If the handsaw is this date, then if has cleared up a couple points on style/design that have been niggling me for a long time. First the overall handle style. Without being pretty sure of the date I would have put this handle at 1870+, particularly with the 4 ( albeit small) screws and even with the London Flat. So, caveat no. 1. Beware handle style alone for dating. Similar handles were produced over an 80 year range. Secondly, the 3 crowns. This has three crowns and so do a lot of later saws, and so caveat no.2. The existence of crowns on a blade in isolation have little impact on dating. They look like they were used on and off over a similar time period as mentioned above. One thing that I have just noticed is that is that my later handsaws with flattened bottom horns tend to be the lower quality ones and they have only three screws (generally). I wonder whether 4 screws denoted a better quality saw at this time, or whether 4 were put on before competition really set in and cost cutting had to take place. I suspect that we may guess but will never really know. Fred
Hi Fred, I do like those two nice, early saws with their fine looking handles. They look like they'd hold as comfortably in the hand as they're easy on the eye. I agree with your caveats about stamped crowns and that handle form. Their presence doesn't necessarily mean anything definitive; they appear early in the century and they appear late. On the other hand, although you've occasionally expressed some doubts about your other theory of King's or Queen's crowns as an aid in dating a saw, I do think it can be quite helpful on occasion (certainly at the William/Victoria divide). Your thoughtful contributions to solving the puzzle are always appreciated here. In any case, I envy you your luck at the boot sales, and wish you more good hunting. David
Thanks for the reply David, I do think that the Kings and Queens crowns thing is valid, - but limited. I think that I have only one saw ( and I forget which one now) where the company's dates spanned William/Victoria and the crowns were distinct enough to acsribe the reign of William to the saw. The major problem being that, on a worn blade, it is hard to tell with any certainty, what the mark is. As regards boot sales, winter is unfortunately coming and and even if I want to get up early to go to one, when the days draw in, few sellers do and so I suspect that after September, pickings will be sparse. But it will give me a lie in bed on a Sunday morning. Fred