Hey Ray et al. And the rest of the quote we see when we open the home page is "The saw that started it all, back in the 1990's, when Peter Taran and Patrick Leach, fed up with the poor quality saws available, decided to make their own, inspired by a R.Groves & Sons dovetail saw, later they sold to Lie Nielsen who continue to make this beautiful saw available." So I see the image of a very nice Lie Nielson saw every time I open up to the site. I don't own one of their saws nor the original Independence saw either but I have tried and used them over the years and they are very nice saws. Don't think I own a Groves saw that matches these profiles quite much as this very recent acquisition. The seller at this very local garage sale was selling a great grandfathers tool chest and parting with some of the tools that belonged in it. The kids weren't interested in their family heritage and he hoped they would go to a good home. The alleged history of the original owner, Alexander Kinnaird, suggested he emmigrated from Scotland to Ontario in the 1850s and died before the turn of the century. There weren't a whole lot of tools but some dateable tools. Everything was stamped A R Kinnaird. After a little digging into some genealogy I find out his birth and death and where he is buried. I saw some significant similarities in these saws. This is an open handled steel back 10" saw with a very fine blade. There are two split nuts that connect the beech handle to the blade. The most significant part that caught my eye was a blued steel backing. The saw had been in some water and significant rust had started to form but the blueing and blade were still relatively shiny. I thought it was going to be a lost cause since there was at least a 3/4" bow in the tooth blade. I find that very fine blades tend to bow easier and getting that out is a challenge. I added some lubricant to the back in order to separate the back from the blade hoping that it wasn't going to harm the nice blueing. Tapped once or twice vertically and then back on the nose to rock it loose. Low and behold an "Ahagh" moment like a friend of mine likes to say. The blade was straight as a die. Tension changed. I cleaned off some of the very heavy rust, touched up the teeth and waxed the handle. This is how I will leave it, a very comfortable clean cutting saw. Alex died in 1877. There were some stamped Warnoch chisels made a few miles away and they sold out the edge tool making in the 1870's. I am going to continue to follow Simon's policy that dating a back saw by its handle is a "Mugs Game" and figure just because it is shiny and clean in may not be as new as I thought. Enjoy Joe S.