Taylor Edward :Saw maker and elastic steel Busks

Discussion in 'Forum: Saw Identification and Discussion' started by Joe S, Jul 2, 2012.

  1. Joe S

    Joe S Most Valued Member

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    376
    Ray et al
    Another Taylor saw but this time not by the Taylor Bros. I couldn't resist when not much interest was shown for this relatively early saw. It arrived with a couple of issues but nothing all that significant.
    HSMB and Ken Roberts suggest he was at 53 Carver St. from 1828-1839 but I have found references from an 1825 directory and probably earlier. Nothing later that 1839 but that may only be because the next directory is about 1849.
    Where this saw fits in the manufacture time I would think the later. It has a 26" blade, rounded nose and small nib. The beech handle sports four 7/16" brass split screws. The stamp says "Edward Taylor, Cast *Steel " and has three Crowns surrounding this. The crowns must have been from a separate stamp because there is nothing uniform or lined up.
    The Title comes from the one of the other products he made and advertised. I didn't know exactly what steek busks were. It seems they were important supports for corsets and I guess saw steel plate and steel busks were of similar size and one enterprise "supported " the other.
    The only other question was whether Edward was related to the later Taylors even though the place of manufacture is different.
    Enjoy
    Joe S.
     

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  2. TobyC

    TobyC Most Valued Member

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    216
    From here.

    There is an Edward Taylor listed here on a Beardshaw & Son Company Ledger.

    Not helpful, but thought i'd throw them in anyway.

    Toby
     
  3. fred0325

    fred0325 Most Valued Member

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    1,084
    Hi Joe and Toby,

    You beat me to Kiwi's Beardshaw Toby but it is interesting to note that Kiwi thinks that the mark is the abbreviated Edwd, and which probably does make a difference for trademark infringement as it is not "Edward" Taylor. So it may or may not be a Beardshaw and may or may not be Edward Taylor 1828 to 1839 (HSMOB).

    Not helpful I know but then little about an old/unknown saw is. This next bit I am afraid is not going to be helpful either, but it is fascinating to me with my Crowns obsession.

    This is definitely a Queen's crown but with Cast(dot)steel and which should put it into the George/William era. Which means either that I am wrong on the notion of Crowns ( a fact that I am resigned to although unwilling to accept without absolute proof), or we have a saw that used Cast(dot) long after its common usage stopped. And if the next paragraph is valid, long, long after its common usage stopped.

    Another fly in the ointment, for me at least is that if you showed me this saw in isolation and without the cast(dot) mark I would have no hesitation in putting it in the 1870's/80's category from handle style and number of saw screws alone. Although the rounded nose (if original and not a later adaptation) is a problem from this point of view. The crowns are not much help either because they were probably used after 1860 but may have been used in the 1820's and 30's.

    The uspshot of all this is that I am completely lost on this one, but again that is part of the fun.

    Fred
     
  4. Joe S

    Joe S Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    376
    Thanks for the quick replys everyone.
    Hadn't even thought it was a later saw (post 1840). Too many early indications at first and I figured if it "walks, swims and quacks like a duck"......
    Toby's reference to Simon's "Beardshaw & Son Company Ledger" at least references an 1823 existence to Edward Taylor the saw maker so he may even predate that. I'm still curious to know if Edward was a saw assembler and was he buying just saw plate. Were the saws already assembled and made and Beardshaw and Son were subcontracting. Simon suggested that they were making for the big firms but where would Edward Taylor fit into this? I would assume he just starting out also.
    Kiwi's saw as Simon noted was a three screw saw with a "lesser" Quality German steel. Again three crowns but the shape of the handle is so similar. We didn't nail a date on that so I guess this saw also will be in date limbo.
    Joe S.
     
  5. kiwi

    kiwi Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    355
    Nice saw Joe,
    and exactly like mine except;
    -the handles differ; in the number of screws, the shape of the nose (I usually associate the tapered nose of your saw handle as earlier than the hooked nose of my handle), and the shape at the curve of the lamb's tongue
    -the blade shape differs with your rounded tip (although my plate is a suspicious length of 25 inches and is likely shortened)
    -the blade stamp differs; "Edward" vs my supposed "Edwd", "cast.steel" vs "sheffield, german steel", and crowns with a different cross on top.

    As for what all this means, I'm with Fred;
    "...I am completely lost on this one, but again that is part of the fun"

    Regarding busks, its interesting that the Beardshaw register (Toby's reference) shows that Beardshaw also dealt in busks along with their saws [did whalebone supplant steel busks, or did "whalebone" just refer to product users?]
     
  6. fred0325

    fred0325 Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    1,084
    Hi Joe, Kiwi and all,

    The following is a WAG extraordinaire but it might have something in it.

    There is a Charles Calow who is a tableknife manufacturer in Gell 1825 (p.26) and there is an Edward Taylor of around the same date. (Saw maker)

    In 1879 there is a Charles Calow Beardshaw and an Edwd Taylor Beardshaw both of whom are in the employ of or associated with J. Beardshaw and Sons and both of whom have saws named after them.

    Now, whilst Edward Taylor is a common name, Charles Calow isn't and so it is probable that there is some connection between the Original C.C. and the C.C Beardshaw. And by association the same could possibly be said of Edward Tayor and Edwd. Taylor Beardshaw.

    What if both Charles Calow and Edward Taylor married Beardshaw girls, were subsumed into the firm and produced offspring that they named after themselves (or perhaps even grandchildren by 1879 when they appear in the directory).

    Thus Kiwi's Edwd Taylor saw is the 1879 one and Joe's Edward Tayor is the original Edward Taylor (1925 to1839) prior to above putative marriage.

    It just about fits, but is it right?

    Fred

    Sorry, obvious error before someone points it out. Daughetrs of above marrying Beardshaw boys.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2012