Shaw/Hanbury

Hey all
Trying to get a little help on this saw as to the maker. The preamble starts with the seller saying that the makers mark had been stamped over but the Cast *Steel caught my attention. . I'm up for a challenge so I took a flyer on it. I will start with the pics.
This little 8' brass back looked old enoughto suggest it was early.When I get the saw I see that the stamp (of the maker) has been overstamped. On the reverse of the saw is an owner "J Nodder" stamp that seems to have lightly made its way over the first stamp. A little dust and a few pics and the image of a JOHN SHAW appears. I had assumed that the "Hanbury" stamp below the Cast*Steel is a location. I look for any Hanbury lacales but they all seem very rural and the only other site that came up was a street in London made famous by one of Jack the Rippers victims. I look through some of the Directories after Fred had mentioned he was looking for info on the Holmer saw and if it wasn't for Fred's push I wouldn't have seen this. In the 1841 London Directory under the "saw maker" section is the inclusion of file cutters. Sure enough Henry Hanbury.worked out of 11 Hart St.
Shaw had been mention in earlier posts but I think this saw predates any of these. HSMOB mentions two John Shaws, one in Devonport 1844-1852 and one in Canterbury in 1855. Shaw, Marshall and Co of Sheffield 1797-1829 had "T Shaw" marks. Shaw and Cutler were shortlived from 1814-1817. I don't know the first initial. So I'm wondering if a file maker would purchase saws, overstamp and put his own name on the saws to sell. I can't imagine they would purchase to file and then sell because I would assume the mechanics would know how to sharpen their own saws.
Help me solve the mystery
Joe S

 

Hi Joe,

I am afraid that all I have is questions, mainly about the mark. It has got me well and truely beaten (again not an out of the ordinary thing to happen) because it looks, from the photograph, like there are a number of overstampings and some letters that I would describe as extraneous.

Let's start with the easiest "cast.steel". This looks like one stamp and in a similar lettering style as "Shaw" but John Shaw sometimes has different top serifs( ie. straight uprights as opposed to angled ones). This is where it gets difficult. I would guess that "Shaw" is not one stamp, but separate letters. Look at the gap between the "S" and "H" and then between the "H" and what must be the "A". There also appears to be and "I" superimposed over the "W" (just above the Y of Hanbury).

The "JOHN" looks to me a complete mish-mash. There appears to be an "I" virtually touching the upright of the "N"; another "I","J" or similar protruding above the letter line where the "O" should be and an "I" right at the start (possibly and archaic "J"?) followed very closely by what may be the shadow of an "A".

And which is the overstamping I would hesitate to say.

I have got no further than you with Shaw but there may be glimmerings with Hanbury. Please see

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hanbury_(1664–1734)

"John Hanbury (1664–1734) was one of a dynasty of ironmasters responsible for the industrialisation and urbanisation of the eastern valley through which runs the Afon Llwyd (in English "grey river") in Monmouthshire around Pontypool. Hanbury is most notable for patenting the rolling process of tinplating in the early 18th century."

This may be a bit early for your saw but the company was still going in 1849

Hunt & Co.'s Directory for Gloucester, Bristol & Welsh towns, 1849 p135.
Leigh Capel Hanbury, Pontypool works. In Pigots 1835 they were under ironmasters and merchants p 260.

It is a bit of a long shot I know but it may not be too far fetched for a dynasty of Ironmasters to have a saw named after them, or even made by them. And they orginated from Hanbury in Worcestershire, one of the rural locations possibly found by you whilst researching.

I have unfortunately also found a Hanbury ironmomgers in Pigots 1835 p 348 and an Iron Merchant and Master Sparrow William Hanbury, Foley(?place) p 432.

Anyway, as I said, not much help but possibly a few avenues.

Fred

 

Hey Fred , Ray et al.
Thanks for all the ideas on the saw. I took another shot and maybe it will offer some more ideas. The "J Nodder" owner stamp was stamped and can be seen a little and this is what might be distorting some of the other markings. I have a feeling there was a deliberate intent to hide the makers otherwise J Nodder would be more distinct. I see Fred that the fist name is a little more confusing. On the second shot I see another letter looking like a "D". I don't think it helps.
The handle is beech and has an early look to it but nothing distinctive.
Maybe more will come later
Joe S.