Oakley and Fox (Hardware) N. Y.

Discussion in 'Forum: Saw Identification and Discussion' started by Joe S, Jan 1, 2015.

  1. Joe S

    Joe S Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    376
    Ray et al.
    A healthy and prosperous New Year to you all.
    I am not really interested in hardware saws unless they are local to me, even though some of them are of high quality and are very attractive. There just isn't enough room.
    Sometimes one of them will intrigue me enough to add to the collection. This happens to be one of them.
    Oakley and Fox were hardware dealers in New York. The earliest I have found them is in the 1848 directory
    located at 73 Pearl and 40 Stone. The 1851 directory has them located at 30 Courtlandt St. N.Y.
    They were described in the Merchants Magazine of that year as "Oakley and Fox, Importers and Dealers in Hardware, Cutlery, and Guns of American, English and German Manufacture. " The 1856 directory has the name as Fox, Oakley and Morgan at the 30 Courtlandt address.

    So I am figuring this business was around from about 1848 to 1856 and any more info would be great.
    This 12" in steel back saw has a nice beech open handle and two 3/8" brass screws holding it in place. The reverse side shows one part is missing. I don't see any slot for tightening but may have disappeared over the years.
    The reverse side shows brass posts through the flange. The steel back has no markings at all. The only marking on the saw is the "Oakley & Fox New York" impressed stamp in the saw plate. Between these two stamps is a very faint "C" which I think may have been the start of a cast steel but is not there. The Oakley and Fox stamp is separate from the New York as they aren't parallel.
    I leave this to you now. Do we have an imported English saw that has been stamped and sent over or stamped in New York after arrival? Wouldn't a hard stamping generally deform a thin saw plate after hardening because I don't see any impressing of the plate? Later there was etching which wouldn't have been as hard on a plate. I really like the font that everything above a line so there is no lines below the line esp. in the letter "y". Has anyone seen this in any saw manufacturer and their stamps?


    Oakley and Fox 2014-12-29_2.JPG Oakley and Fox 2014-12-29_3.JPG Oakley and fox 2014-12-29_4.JPG Oakley and Fox 2014-12-29_5.JPG
    Cheers
    Joe S.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2015
  2. Pastahill

    Pastahill Member

    Messages:
    22
    Hello Joe

    I think you have a German saw. This "screws" are rivets ( a brass rod and two Brass washers peened together and than grinded flat wth the surface of the wood). This typ of fastening was very popular here in Germany. I dont know if this system was also used in other countrys. This system was much cheaper than screws. Also the steel back looks very German, a lot of the German manufacturer have not stamped there saws. I have a few witch I dont now who made them and how old there are. Here is a example of one witch i restore now. If you want, i can take pictures tomorrow of the disassenbled rivets.
    IMG_4769.JPG

    and here is a restored one

    IMG_4739.JPG
     
    wilji3035 likes this.
  3. Joe S

    Joe S Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    376
    Hey Pastahill
    Thanks for the great suggestions. Hadn't even crossed my mind it might have been a German saw though they were described as German importers also . I need to think more outside the box here. Who knows how many other unmarked German saws had been imported overseas. I have seen a few Boker saws and of course the "screws" are as you described. It never clicked in, the difference.
    So it begs the question.... How did they tighten the handle when there was going to be some inevitable wood shrinkage?
    Best regards
    Joe S.
     
  4. ray

    ray Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    671
    Hi Joe,
    A judicious whack with a hammer would tighten the rivets. The marking on the saw plate is what's got me intrigued, it would have to be marked when in the annealed state? then cleaned up and straightened... Why not just stamp the back?

    Nice work Pastahill, for spotting the German connection... ( your restored saw looks good! )

    Ray
     
  5. Pastahill

    Pastahill Member

    Messages:
    22
    Here are a photo of the rivets, the rod gets always crooked and compressed so its not easy to remove them.
     
  6. Pastahill

    Pastahill Member

    Messages:
    22
    sorry, something went wrong with the upload. Here is it
    IMG_4849_Bildgröße ändern.JPG
     
  7. wilji3035

    wilji3035 Member

    Messages:
    24
    Joe, you've got an interesting saw there. The shape of the handle really caught my eye - it seems to have some of the features that Pastahill's restored saw has.

    Pastahill, the restored saw you show as an example here is wonderful!