... comments/information very welcome. I've shown them on another forum (that's how I got here ) Sorby Tyzack Disston Roger
Hi Roger, Welcome to the site. You are right, collecting saws can become addictive and expensive as well, depending upon to what extent you want to collect. If you are going to collect, then I would seriously suggest that you get a "Handsaw Makers of Britain" (HSMOB) by Schaffer and McConnell. I struggled for about three months before I got mine and although some of it is apocryphal or inaccurate, it is a very useful resource and must be the easiest and most affordable to get. My life changed after it. Now to your saws. All that I can tell you is what is in HSMOB. As far as the I Sorby goes, because he has "Northern Tool Works " after his name, it should be a saw made by Turner, Naylor and Marples and their dates are from 1876 to 1963. They were a successor company to Joseph Turner and Co (1862 to 1867) whose lineage extended back to Sorby and Turner ( who HSMOB mention but don't have as a discrete company). If you want a discussion of the I Sorby mark, go to (currently) page three of this section and my I Sorby handsaw topic. I will not re-hash it here. The saw screws would put the saw to (probably) pre WW1 and so the best that I can do is 1876 to 1914. It has a brass back and so it should be a reasonable quality saw. The London pattern handle with the flattened bottom horn means little for dating, as I found out the hard way! Tyzack Sons and Turner operated from 1867 to 1990 and HSMOB has them becoming "Limited" after 1906. The handle and the washer under the third saw screw must put it very late. I would hazard a guess at post WW2 and probably a fair bit later than that. I am sure that someone will correct me if I am wrong. Again, brass backed and so it should be a decent saw. As for the Disston, I haven't the faintest idea I am afraid. The label screw (medallion) is missing, which is one fairly certain way of approximately dating a Disston. And I know nothing of the format of stamps on the backs of Disston backsaws. I also cannot find much out about it on the Disstonianian Institute website which you can access fron this site. I am sure that there must be many Disston enthusiasts out there who can tell you all about it. Good luck in your saw hunting, Fred I have just looked through my photographs and I had a Disston which looks a lot like yours with a medallion that dates it 1896 to 1917. I will try to attach them below.
Hi Roger and Fred, Welcome to the site, 3 nice saws, that I.Sorby is an excellent example. Fred has covered (nice work Fred!) the Tyzack and the I.Sorby already, so I'll add a little regarding the Disston. There are many resources on the internet for Disston saws, I wish the same could be said for other makers! The best is the Disstonian Institute. The relevant page is this one http://www.disstonianinstitute.com/backsawpage.html I think your Disston is a No5 (which is a No4 with a brass back) and going by the mark on the spine, I think was probably made sometime in the first half of the 1900's, (perhaps 1920's?) I think that's roughly when they started stamping "USA" in addition to "PHILADA.." If you want to restore the Disston, then you'll need a medallion and a couple of saw screws, Disston medallions and saw screws come up on ebay from time to time, people salvage them for resale. Regards Ray
Thanks for all the replies, info and link. I'll do some research over the weekend. I'll post again later if I come to any conclusion. Roger
Hi Roger, I've been wondering about your I.Sorby As a starting point here is the Sorby Family tree as published by Ken Roberts. "Some 19th Century Woodworking Tools" The first thing to note is that there are some errors in the chart. Isaac Sorby, so far as anyone can tell, didn't actually exist. But the thing to look for is the Northern Tool Works in John Street, which appears to date from 1876 to 1893 as Turner Naylor and Marples, then as Turner Naylor & Co from 1893 to 1909. The 1901 tradmark listed for I Sorby is the punchinello (punch and judy character). Your's doesn't have that mark. So I going to go out on a limb and suggest it's earlier than 1901, perhaps 1876 to 1893 as a rough guide. If we can discover when the punchinello started to be used then that might provide a better indication. Regards Ray
I own a lot of Robert sorby chisels ( new) and some old Kangaroo sorby chisels. Are these related in anyway to the wonderful diagram above? lui
Hi Lui, Briefly the answer appears to be "yes". If you follow the link below and can plough through all the non-relevant history ( scroll down past it to the Robert Sorby/Kangaroo arch) you will come to three paragraphs just under it which refer to John Sorby being the brother of Thomas and hence the uncle of Robert. It looks like the companies are completely unrelated but the people are. But if you go to 11 paragraphs above the image of the arch, that is where they start with Robert Sorby. There is also a bit on the John Sorby/ Sorby Turner connections as well but not as clear as the diagram, and I think that the dates may vary a bit. I haven't really checked. The dates and familial relationships in the article I find very confusing, and I think they do at times as well. http://www.robert-sorby.co.uk/company_info.htm If you can plough your way through the article, there is some fascinating albeit potted history of the steel and tool industry in Sheffield and its development. It also refers to a variation on the phrase used by Matt in his reply to the "Use" topic,"little messers" , or in the Sorby history "little mesters". I come originally from Derbyshire which is the adjoining county to the south and am used to the term, but for those of you who are not, "Mester", certainly in Derbyshire is a corruption/variation of "Mister" (Mr.). And many South Yorkshire people to this day use the term in everyday speech. Anyway, have a look at the article, it is a mine of information. Fred
New to this addiction Agree - there is a very large history of the entire Sorby clan in the Local Studies branch of Sheffield city library, listing every person known, from the 16th cent onwards. There has never been any man with the first name Isaac. It's a pity that Ken Roberts is no longer with us for us to ask him if he could tell us where he got his information. Hope you manage your addiction better than I have! Simon