One of the saws I got on my travels on Friday was a "Lloyd Davis" brass backsaw by Spear & Jackson. This seems to be an old-ish saw, with only two small 7/16" split nuts in a London Pattern handle. [ it needs a good cleanup to remove rust and grime, and the back needs to be knocked back tight to the handle, but the blade is good and straight] All the information I've seen has Lloyd Davies (Not Davis) as the Trade Name used by S&J, so I'm assuming this is just a typo (and S&J didn't start out with Davis and then change over to Davies ) Was Lloyd Davies (Davis) some popular figure in UK history ? (or from S&J internal history ? )
Hi Kiwi, I really cannot help you at alll on this, as LLoyd Davies is a difficult name to Google, and so I think that it is one of those questions that you either know the answer to or you don't. And I don't although Ray or Simon might. One thing that does come up on Google is Wikipedia's reference to the "LLoyd Davies Postition" and which refers to a rather unedifying position that a patient is placed in for what must be singularly unpleasant lower abdominal surgery. I wish to dwell on this no further as I don't think that a saw brand would be named after such a man. This saw must rate as on a par with Disston's "SNOS", although possibly a lot rarer as Disston, I believe, produced thousands of them and they do come up on Ebay from time to time. This is the first LLoyd Davis that I have seen and I suspect many others who use this site as well. And again, another wonderful saw from North America. I must consider emigrating as I could probably buy a house in the USA {( I don't know about Canada) in the current housing market} for the amount of postage that I am spending on saws from accross the pond. All in all a lovely curiosity. You must either be very lucky, or very good at rooting out the obscure to get the saws that you do. And if you can see a slight green tinge to this entry, your vision would not be amiss. Fred
Hi Fred, Yes, I do seem to be lucky. Of course, the harder I search the luckier I get (seems to work for deer hunting, fishing, and finding golf balls too). There's plenty of room in Ontario for you to come saw hunting here too, although I might not recommend buying a house just now as local prices are as high as ever and it might be a market ready for a "correction" I have lots of saw hunting opportunities nearby, if I care to investigate; usually several local estate/stuff auctions each week, and yard sales and flea markets and antique+collectables stores to check..... Its a dangerous game though, because if there's no saws I have a tendancy to go for a consolation prize and come home with some other "interesting" stuff. Frequently there are long periods between finding interesting saws (especially as my "interesting" criteria narrows with time), but then all of a sudden a bunch of them turn up. Last Friday I stopped at a country Antique/Collectibles store I hadn't visited before, and found three old 14" brass backsaws with split nuts and lambs tongues. In the picture, the top one is the "Davis". The middle one I have started to clean, but it was as black and rusty as the Davis when I started. These two were in a box in the basement and it was hard to see that the backs were brass and not steel. Both are by common sawmakers, but at $5 each the price was interesting. The bottom saw was on the main floor in the higher price area, and as it is in worn out condition I initially left it and went out to the car, but it had a name I didn't recognize so I changed my mind and went back in and bought it too ($14). As it turns out, subsequent closer inspection of the saws, and some research, showed each one to have some interesting feature (I hadn't initially realized the Davis/Davies anomoly). I'll give more details on the other saws in another post
Lloyd Davies saw This is the earliest LD saw I've seen - I reckon that the italicised words Cast Steel indicate the 1860s or not far away. Like other S&J secondary marks (Lupton is the one I've worked on entirely in vain) I can't find its origin. The name is decidedly Welsh - as if that is any help.
Davis Davies Hi All, Tracing the origin of secondary brand names is an interesting exercise, since the chosen brands seem to be sometimes deliberately chosen for non-existant people.. Lloyd Davis/Davies did actually exist, he was a timber merchant, and dealer in Liverpool in the early 1800's, (with his brother William) as to whether or not there exists any connection between him and the brand used by S&J some many years later is just pure speculation... (then again speculation can be fun sometimes) This appeared in the London Gazette on the 16th of July 1817. Note the seemingly arbitrary switching between spelling as Davis, and Davies.. Now, can anyone tell me what a chapman is? Regards Ray
Davis Davies Hey Ray et al. I also was curious so I just looked up the meaning of "Chapman". It said in Wikopedia that the surname Chapman in "The Oxford English Dictionary gives four meanings for Chapman. They are a man whose business was buying and selling; an itinerant dealer who travels otherwise known as a hawker or peddler; an agent in a commercial transaction, or a purchaser or customer." This seems to be the most apppropriate to the listings you found. Joe S
Lloyd Davis Hooray for Ray - and not for the first time, either. Spelling in the 18th cent and earlier was open house - do it how you like - and I'm sure that the habit didn't die out very quickly (dependent on literacy rates, availability of the printed word etc) - so to see a difference between Davis and Davies means nothing, I'd say. I've not previously recorded a S&J Lloyd Davis saw, and I'd like to incorporate the image into the S&J entry, please. There were very large connections between Sheffield and Liverpool - only about 60 miles to the west, and of course much quicker to export from there across the Atlantic, by far the largest market for English manufacturers. In the absence of other contenders, I'd vote for this L'pool timber merchant/chapman. Sheffield tools and cutlery had been hawked by chapmen for many decades before 1817, and LD just might have come regularly to Sheffield, filled his bags with S&J's (or rather, Spear's alone at that date) tools and set forth to sell to isolated country woodworkers - I feel as though I could almost write a little scene like Ray's recent one in the Attercliffe road, but I'd rather leave that to his more inventive mind.
Hi Simon, you're welcome to use anything from my posts here. (I sort of believe its public property once I've posted it) "Lloyd Davis" is 22mm long Other recent saws from my 2011 backsaw bonanza are: "Jackson Stacey & Smith" is 32mm (horizontally, straight across the chord) "Moseley & Sons" is 29mm "A Rosling" is 19 mm "Martin" is 18mm Let me know if any are interesting enough to require more effort in getting clearer pictures (it certainly looks like I need more practice ! ) Rob
Lloyd Davi(e)s saw Thanks a lot, Rob - - you certainly know my needs for sizes. I'd like to incorporate the LD, the Jackson & Co and the Martin ones, with acknowledgements.