John Spear - Disston Hybrid

This saw was listed on ebay today. I don't intend to bid on it, but I'm curious exactly what it is. The etch clearly shows it is a Disston No. 8. But the medallion is stamped John Spear, Sheffield, No. 7. The medallion has to be foreign to the saw, but what is the origin of a John Spear medallion? I thought John Spear was making saws before the use of medallions began, and I didn't know he numbered his saws either. Is this some sort of commemorative medallion produced at a later date, perhaps by Spear & Jackson or some other maker?

 

HSMOB has John Spear from 1814 to 1824 but they claim that his saws were marked "Spear" only.

Spear and Jackson made saws marked "John Spear" from 1830 onwards but HSMOB state that only early saws were marked as such.

I did see very recently on Ebay a backsaw etched John Spear.

I find myself in the embarrassing position of not knowing when etching was brought in, but I have two dates in mind late 1830's and 1850's. Neither of which may be correct.

The 1850's date is certainly late enough for a medallion and the late 1830's may be at a pinch.

Does anyone know when etching or manufacturer medallions were brought in??

Fred

 

Fred,
Ray's timeline shows medallions starting 1830 and etching starting 1850. So possibly this medallion is from the very latter days of John Spear or very earliest days of Spear & Jackson? If so, it would seem quite a treasure.

Bob

 

Bob,
I haven't seen that medallion on a Disston saw before, and I'd say its a replacement.
I'm guessing that the John Spear mark is a Spear&Jackson product, (maybe a commemorative 75 or 100yrs edition ? )
Some discussion on a John Spear medallioned backsaw here
http://www.backsaw.net/index.php?option=com_jfusion&Itemid=58&jfile=showthread.php&t=111

 

John Spear/Disston hybrid

I've seen a number of hybrids, the oddest (and my best small saw) a marriage of a John Kenyon blade marked Fulton (one of their product lines) with an American Atkins medallion - no signs of previous emanations, although I've not taken off the handle.
Incidentally (a previous recent post) multiple holes in a saw plate seem to be very common if you do take a handle off - even if the saw seems altogether otherwise original.

And judging by the number of saws where there have been alterations to handles, it's not perhaps surprising that people put whatever new screws came to hand, knowing how very difficult it is to get old flat screws to do the job if you try and put them back (they were not intended to be put back, so you can't really blame the original maker).
John Spear no 7 saws seem to be of the 1850-1860 era; they aren't in any of the S&J catalogues that I've seen, which go back only to 1880. S&J started their second quality lines a bit later, but only with Aetna, John Cockerill, Mermaid, Leapfrog, Lloyd Davies and Goblin. I think the John Spear name was kept until about 1860 because he was the founder/senior partner.