Hey Ray et al This saw again sports an early handle thats beckons every time I see them in piles of saws. A very heavy 26" blade has a small faint stamp, "I. Shaw German Steel" and three crowns surrounding this. The check list here hasn't much except a 1919 listing which this saw I presume predates by a 100 years. Looking in the HSMB, The "I." might be from a James Shaw (Dauntless Works) on Portobello street starting in 1856-1911 but I wonder if this predates James or was he around a lot before this. Under the Shaw, Marshall and Co 1797-1829, Schaffer and McConnell mention saws "T. Shaw marked saws" as a distinction of this company. The stamp on my saw is definitely marked "I". Is their "T" a typo or a product of a light stamp that has been misinterpreted? I don't know the first name of Mr. Shaw to connect the two. Roberts mentions Shaw and Co. 1821, Shaw and Cutler 1814-1817 and of course Shaw, Marshall and Co. Does anyone know the first name of the Mr. Shaws so I can maybe decide where this saw might be from. I had brought an earlier post about a saw of an overstamp "Hanbury" and what I thought was a Shaw there. Fred hadn't found a lot from that but this is a very distinct "I" Enjoy the Pics Joe S.
A fairly early one, Joe, I think, judging by the look of the handle and the small screws. Possibly not a Sheffield saw, with the London pattern handle and the three screws (but it would do for a second or less quality Sheffield saw, and James Shaw's primary interest was probably not saws, but steel, so his saws could very likely not have been first quality), but 3 crowns were not often used outside Sheffield. There are several candidates: SHAW, J. CANTERBURY 62 Palace Street 1855 SHAW, James SHEFFIELD Dauntless Works, Radford Street 1859 & 1868-1889 Effingham Road 1900-1913 1859: manufacturer of saws, files, tobacco and cork knives; 1879: merchant and manufacturer of steel, saws, files and edge tools, and manufacturer of Burley’s patent spiral springs [at Penistone, 12 miles from Sheffield]. In 1919 their mark was registered to Henry Rossell. SHAW, John Gill (1896: & Son) CHESTER Bridge Street (and other addresses) 1850-1928> Other members of the family (R.G.Shaw and H.Shaw) were in the ironmongery trade in Chester in the 20th century. 1850: ironmonger; 1868: ironmonger and manufacturer of kitchen ranges etc; 1874: furnishing and general ironmonger, cutler, hot water apparatus and kitchen range manufacturer, brazier, iron and tinplate worker. SHAW, John GLASGOW 7 Govan Street 1883-1888> SHAW, John PLYMOUTH 75 (60) Fore Street, Devonport 1844-1853 1844: ironmonger, saw manufacturer, timber merchant and fishing tackle manufacturer; 1852: saw maker and cutler. SHAW, CUTLER & Co SHEFFIELD Stanley Street 1814-1815 Newfield, Bridgehouses 1816-1817 SHAW, MARSHALL & Co Newfield, Bridgehouses 1797-1821 Oborne Street 1825-1828 1821: factors, edge tool and saw manufacturers. Thomas Shaw is listed as a factor, but there is no indication which Cutler this is (it may be William, but there are too many other candidates to be sure) and the identity of Marshall is also not known (see the several other firms with this surname). The addresses were close together, and possibly even the same premises, in an area of the town which was being developed at these dates. Is all this information actually helpful??!!
Hey Simon It is more than helpful and thanks. It gives a sort of perspective and lineage even to the addresses and first names. I am coming to realize that a lot of the saws were probably a product of a larger manufacturing house and the names put on were most likely from a merchant or the possibility of assemblers. The "bright struck mark" you mention in the next post reminds me of the strike here also. This was not from a stamp but single strikes suggesting that it maybe wasn't the primary product of that house. I really looked at the "I" in the Shaw and it seems more like a small "i" if that makes any difference. It isn't from Thomas Shaw then but as these strikes are not deep. As you suggest it has an early feel but I wonder if some of the old vestiges of style and aesthetic carried on for many years causing us some confusion as to where they fit in the chronological order. Regards Joe S.
Hi Joe, Simon. I found a london gazette partnership dissolution notice notice dated October 19th 1792, I'll try and copy the entry and post here. But the gist is.. The notice dissolved the partnership between Thomas Shaw, Jonathan Marshall and Edward Kay, and the business subsequent to the 16th October 1792 to be carried on by Thomas Shaw and Johnathan Marshall, edge tool and saw makers. A bit more, Note the addition of John Shaw to the partnership sometime between 1792 and 1808.. Is it possible that's the missing "I SHAW" we were looking for? Haven't found which Cutler as yet... Regards Ray
Great find Ray. That would have taken some looking and probably some good luckto find that association. John seems to be 2nd in line so I wonder if this is a son or a relative. There might be some other links to a John and his significance and possible attibutings to particular saws. I still wonder if an individual or company would have to pay money to get into a digest or directory to get mentioned and that may be why some just never appear for financial reasons. They just slip through the cracks. Thanks Joe S.
Essential information, Ray, and great to have it to add to the Shaw, Marshall entries. Thanks a lot. Simon