I Hill. No sun

Discussion in 'Forum: Saw Identification and Discussion' started by fred0325, Mar 31, 2017.

  1. fred0325

    fred0325 Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    1,032
    Hello all,

    It is perhaps a bit of a misnomer to call that asterisky thing above the "late" on Hill late Howel saws a sun, but I got the idea from a seller on Ebay some years ago who so described it referring to its allusion to the company's address in Sun Street, London.

    The only problem with this is that neither in HSMOB or BSSM is there reference to such an address so you may wish to take the above description with a pinch of salt.

    Whatever the asterisky thing is, or is supposed to be, it isn't here on this saw.

    The questions then arise:-

    1) was left off by accident?
    2)was it left off by design, and if so, why?
    or

    3)Do we, in fact, have pre and post "Sun" saws by this maker.

    Now to the saw itself. The plate has seen better days in terms of straightness but it does have two screws and is brass backed which would indicate that it was earlier in the life of this company than later and that it was a quality saw.

    I am also assuming that "I" is an archaic form of "J" and this should also put it as an earlier saw

    The handle is 1.03 inches thick and this should indicate that it was also a quality saw in its day.

    The first two questions above are purely rhetorical as the answer can never be known. It might be possible however to find out if there are any other "No sun" saws around, and if so to have a WAG at their dates.

    If they (all :rolleyes:) turn out to be I Hill saws, then this may well indicate some foundation for the pre/post Sun theory.

    If you could scour your collections for such examples (or contrary examples), I would be eternally grateful. If there are none, it could just be put down to being an error in stamping.

    Fred

    NB The 3rd picture below is one that I have on my computer, but I think that it is one that I have snaffled from somewhere. It has the "Sun".
     

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    Underthedirt likes this.
  2. Underthedirt

    Underthedirt Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    153
    Awesome saw Fred, that would have to be an early Joseph Hill saw, just gorgeous...:)

    Regards

    Mari
     
  3. Peter Armstrong

    Peter Armstrong Member

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  4. Peter Armstrong

    Peter Armstrong Member

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    11
    Hi Fred
    I've got 7 or 8 Hill late Howel saws and a few are I Hill and all have the star and yours is the only one I've ever seen without the star. Could be they they just forgot to put the star on or more likely it's from a early batch of I Hill saws and the early ones didn't have it.

    If you ever think of moving it on, let me know.

    Peter
     
  5. fred0325

    fred0325 Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    1,032
    Hi Peter,

    Whilst at some stage I may dispose of some of my "also rans" and unwanted saws that I have bought in job lots, I am afraid that this one will be one of the last to go and that, I sincerely hope, will only be after I am "gone".

    Fred
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2017
  6. Peter Armstrong

    Peter Armstrong Member

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    11
    Fred
    That's ok, I'm the same with some of my tools but as they say if you don't ask you'll never know.

    With these Hill saws given the numbers of them still floating around they must of sold a lot of them. Looking at a few of them I've noticed the handles seem to come in at least 3 different hand sizes. The brass backs tapper in height and width and on the 14" saws the difference in weight can be as much as 10 ozs. So I think they might have been more like a custom saw than a off the rack type saw.

    Peter
     
  7. Peter Armstrong

    Peter Armstrong Member

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    11
    Fred

    I was just offered another I Hill with no star, so they must be out there.

    Peter
     
  8. Peter Armstrong

    Peter Armstrong Member

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    11
    Fred
    Do a search on google images and you'll see another 3 on there with no star plus a 10" dovetail just popped up on eBay. So very likely the 1839 ones didn't have a star.

    I looked to see if there was anything solar happen in the 1840 's which might of lead them to thinking of using the star. There was "The great comet of 1841" and the date works.

    Peter