Help Dating Thos Turner & Co saw plate

Discussion in 'Forum: Saw Identification and Discussion' started by Frank English, Nov 23, 2016.

  1. Frank English

    Frank English Active Member

    Messages:
    36
    Picked up this saw yesterday but presume the handle is out age with the saw plate. Looks to modern. Saw plate is 6 ppi, 24 1/4" toe to heel, 2 5/8" at toe and 7" at heel. Some PO had added a second medallion and two nuts & bolts for saw nuts and both medallions are Warranted Superior and believe them American. The stamp is similar to the one at bottom of p594 BSSM Bc1850 | 85mm except mine has that symbol between Thos Turner & Co and Sheffield. Would this saw plate date before or after the one shown in BSSM c1850?
    Thanks for any assistance.

    Frank

    saw & handle.JPG Thos Turner & Co stamp.JPG handle & medallion.JPG
     
  2. fred0325

    fred0325 Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    1,084
    Hi Frank,

    It looks to me as though the back of the blade has been ground away under the handle where the lamb's tongue would normally be but isn't. You are right, I think in saying that the handle is nowhere near right for the saw.

    As for date, I would not argue with circa 1850, but I am looking at a different mark in BSSM for this date.

    The date/mark to which you refer has "Sheffield" in italics, but if you look at the toy saw mark on p.450, the mark itself and "Sheffield" in particular looks to me (from the not too distinct image), to be more like yours. That is, if you ignore the misplacing of the trade mark.

    And on the subject of the placing of the trade mark. On three out of four images in BSSM where the trade mark is above the lettering, the suggested dates are 1850 or before.

    I am wondering if there is any mileage in the notion that if the trade mark is below the Thomas Turner lettering, then the probability is that it is later than the 1850's.

    I haven't taken enough notice of T Turner saws to even WAG that this is the case.

    Fred
     
  3. Force

    Force Active Member

    Messages:
    36
    Hi Frank
    Your post had me delving into one of my saw boxed as I thought I had a very similar stamp on one of my handsaws. Although the Thomas turner & co part of the stamp is of a decent depth the trade mark symbol and is very light on and only the D in Sheffield is visible. Miss stamped or bright struck, I'm not sure but all seems the same as yours. The only part I found that differs is to the right yours is stamped cast steel where mine is stamped London spring.
    Not sure on dates on either yours or mine but the stamps seem pretty close, can't see a warrented stamp on mine as on yours, still unsure on the warranted stamps for dating?
    Mine is without doubt the original handle so have included some picks for you.
    Hope this help a bit and doesn't muddy the waters.
    Cheers....Chris
     

    Attached Files:

  4. Force

    Force Active Member

    Messages:
    36
    Sorry after a closer look at yours Frank it says Refined cast steel not warranted. Failing eye sight is a ......
    Appologies .... Chris.
     
  5. Frank English

    Frank English Active Member

    Messages:
    36
    Fred & Chris, thanks for your comments and pictures. A PO who must have modified my saw plate did a fine job of cleaning up any rough edges. Seeing the handle on your saw Chris confirms mine is definitely out of date to the plate. Only have one other saw with a stamped plate [Spear & Jackson] and while that ones medallion is incorrect it does have split saw nuts which the Thos Turner is lacking. It was an interesting buy as we were picking up other gear and the old [older than me] seller also had numerous handsaws he was selling off. Saw the stamped makers mark but my old eyes were unable to read it. A light clean and surprised to see the name then read about Turner in the BSSM. Chris, is your saw also filed rip at 6 ppi and are our saw plate measurements similar? Neat to find these old British saws on the extreme west coast of Canada.

    Thanks again.
     
  6. Force

    Force Active Member

    Messages:
    36
    Frank, my plate is 26 inch and cross cut at I the ink 5 or 6 tpi.
    Cheers Chris
     
  7. Frank English

    Frank English Active Member

    Messages:
    36
    Thanks Chris, guess the difference in length would be the PO remodelled the heel end of mine. Need to recheck how my saw's teeth are filed. Just presumed it was rip based on the ppi.
     
  8. gmac

    gmac Active Member

    Messages:
    27
    Hello Frank,

    Have finally found a bit of spare time to take a few photos of a similar saw that I have here in S.A.

    It's a 28" straight back 3 1/2 ppi ( first 6" are 4 1/2 ) rip saw with a beech, lambs tongue carved handle,
    held by split nuts.

    It has both stamps and etch on the blade, that look to be from the 1880's to 1890's
    according to Simons book. the medallion may be an older on as well.

    Regards

    Graham.

    tt1.jpg tt2.jpg tt3.jpg tt4.jpg tt5.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

    • tt1.jpg
      tt1.jpg
      File size:
      149.7 KB
      Views:
      8
    • tt2.jpg
      tt2.jpg
      File size:
      410.1 KB
      Views:
      7
    • tt3.jpg
      tt3.jpg
      File size:
      228.3 KB
      Views:
      7
    • tt4.jpg
      tt4.jpg
      File size:
      136.5 KB
      Views:
      8
    • tt5.jpg
      tt5.jpg
      File size:
      171.8 KB
      Views:
      8
  9. Frank English

    Frank English Active Member

    Messages:
    36
    Thanks for the pictures Graham. Still have to clean up the plate but believe there is no etch just the stamp. You and Chris certainly have nice examples of the Turner saws. Too bad a PO modified mine and altered a very nice saw.

    Thanks again

    Frank