H. Biggin

Discussion in 'Forum: Saw Identification and Discussion' started by fred0325, Feb 22, 2014.

  1. fred0325

    fred0325 Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    1,084
    Hello all,

    As David alluded to in a recent post, you are never as objective about your own saws as you are someone-else's. And so it was with this when I first saw it.

    In 1852, Samuel Biggin moved from "Son" to "Sons" before changing to "& Co." in 1856. (HSMOB but not according to the London Gazette.)

    This saw, I was hoping would be in the 1852 to 56 "Sons" era of Henry and Samuel Jnr. It is, of course, probably not that era at all, as evidenced by the orange/yellow varnish on the handle. If it was applied at manufacture this would put it, in my view post 1890 - ish and therefore should be a brand.

    However, to me the mark does not look that late (although I cannot place when it is) and there is a little too much information on the back to indicate the austerity of lettering on a brand.

    So, is it 1852 to 56 after all, a later S Biggin offering (up to 1860 according to HSMOB - but I don't see how) , or a later brand? There are sprinklings of Henry Biggins throughout the directories and none that I have seen are of much help. Although by the looks of the following, unless it is a brand it is unlikely to be after 28th October 1856

    I am by now very confused and am going to stop.


    From the London Gazette

    NOTICE is hereby given, that the Partnership heretofore
    subsisting between us the undersigned, Samuel
    Biggin, Samuel Biggin the younger, Henry Biggin, and
    Paul Smith, carrying on business at Sheffield, in the county
    of York, as Saw, Scythe, and Steel Manufacturers and Merchants,
    under the name or firm of Samuel Biggin and Sons,
    was this day dissolved by deed so far as regards the said
    Samuel Biggin the younger, who retires from the said partnership;
    and that all debts due and on ing to or from the
    said partnership -will be received and paid by the said
    Samuel Biggin, Henry Biggin, and Paul Smith, by whom
    the said business will in future continue to be carried on
    under the name or firm of Samuel Biggin and Son.—As

    witness our hands this 21st day of July, 1855.
    Samuel Biggin. Henry Biggin.
    Samuel Biggin, junior. Paul Smith.

    and

    MARTIN JOHN WEST, Esq., one of Her .Majesty's
    Commissioners authorized to act under a Petition
    for adjudication of Bankruptcy, bearing date the 28th
    day of October, 1856, presented and filed against Samuel
    Biggin, Henry Biggin and Paul Smith, of Sheffield, in the
    county of York, Saw Manufacturers, will sit on the 15th
    day of May next, at ten o'clock in the forenoon precisely,
    at the Leeds District Court of Bankruptcy, in the
    Council-hall, in Sheffield, in order to make a Dividend
    of the estate and effects of the said bankrupts; when and
    where the creditors who have not already proved their
    debts, are to come prepared to prove the same, or they
    will be excluded the benefit of the said Dividend. And
    all claims not then proved will be disallowed.

    Anyway, does anyone have any ideas. And who is Paul Smith??

    Fred

    EDIT

    Just another snippet in the Biggin story. We now have a firm S Biggin and Terry in 1857

    MARTIN J9HN WEST, Esq., one of Her Majesty's
    Commissioners authorized to act under a Petition
    for adjudication of Bankruptcy, bearing date the 28th day
    of October, 1856, and filed in Her Majesty's District
    Court of Bankruptcy, at Leeds, against Samuel Biggin the
    younger, of Sheffield, in the county of York, Saw Manufacturer,
    carrying on business in partnership with Charles
    Frederick Terry, under the firm of S. Biggin and Terry,

    hath appointed a public sitting under such Petition to be
    holden on the 7th day of March next, at ten of the clock
    in the forenoon precisely, at the District Court of Bankruptcy,
    at the Council Hall, in Sheffield, for the
    allowance of the Certificate of the said bankrupt's
    conformity to the laws now in force concerning bankrupts;
    when and where any of the creditors of the said bankrupt,
    who shall have given due notice of his intention
    to oppose, may be heard against the allowance of such
    Certificate, and the same will be allowed unless cause
    be then and there shewn to the contrary, or such other
    order will be made therein as the justice of the case may
    reauire.


    For anyone who may be interested the creditors of the Biggins got between 1s 1d and 1s 10d in the Pound(Sterling)
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Feb 23, 2014
  2. theoldfart

    theoldfart Member

    Messages:
    11
    My Biggin & Sons

    Fred, I'm quite new to this site and can't really help with identification. Rather I'd like to tag along as I picked up a Biggin tenon saw this past summer. I think it's in the 1852 - 1860 range. Here are pics of the medallion and spine. Sorry about the pic size, I'll make them smaller next time
     

    Attached Files:

  3. fred0325

    fred0325 Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    1,084
    Hi,

    As far as I can see that is a "proper" S. Biggin and Sons and although I am unsure of the actual dates of the font styles on the back, the italic "Sheffield" should put it to around the 1850's/1860 as you suggest, possibly nearer the 1860 mark or even a littler later into the 1860's ( and which shouldn't happen unless someone bought the S. Biggin mark upon their bankruptcy). This would explain my saw as well.

    I haven't seen many Biggin saws in the UK and the only time that I have seen the SB medallions were on saws from North America, and I have coveted one for a long time now.

    Hopefully someone else will have some ideas.

    Fred
     
  4. theoldfart

    theoldfart Member

    Messages:
    11
    Fred, thanks for the affirmation. I got lucky, I paid $4 for it at a flea market this past fall. I paid $20 for all the saws in the first pic along with a GoodellPratt 26" mitre box saw.
     
  5. kiwi

    kiwi Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    325
    Hi Fred,

    A short google didn't find any definitive answer, but...
    There seem to be a few razors, knives, and cutlery items on the www with H Biggin (& Co) marks. Might all be related as one cutlery and edge tool maker/retailer (or could be different H Biggins's).

    Silver Hallmarks Directory has Henry Biggin & Co as 1880-1884
    http://www.silvercollection.it/SILVERPLATEHALLMARKSH.html

    longshot; maybe the Henry Biggin who operated Long Hawksley & Co from 1869-1889 used his moniker as a tradename within that company (but, no evidence found) http://strazors.com/uploads/images/articles/H_G_Long.pdf
     
  6. fred0325

    fred0325 Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    1,084
    Thanks Kiwi,

    I like the Long Hawksley and Co. entry.

    I have taken the liberty of pasting the important bit below:-

    Marples died in 1866 and George Hawksley was left to continue the business as Long, Hawksley & Co - a name it retained for the next forty years. It dealt in steel, files, saws and cutlery, and was based at Hallamshire Works in Rockingham Street. G. Hawksley died 5 September 1869, aged 44. After his death, the senior partner was Henry Biggin, who operated the firm until his retirement in 1889.

    1869 to 1889 seems a lot better date for my saw than the S. Bigginses.

    If it is not an independent make, I would like my saw to be a Long, Hawksley brand, but that brings me back to the sentence that started this thread.

    I am a bit iffy about the others as there were a lot of H Biggins around and at least there is a direct link to saws with Long Hawksley.

    Thanks again,

    Fred
     
  7. Gareth

    Gareth New Member

    Messages:
    4
    I have a saw with the with S.BIGGIN & SON medallion but the plate is clearly stamped S.BIGGIN& SONS on the plate. I guess they didnt want to waste any of the medallions when they changed names.
     

    Attached Files:

    • bg1.jpg
      bg1.jpg
      File size:
      390.8 KB
      Views:
      6
    • bg2.jpg
      bg2.jpg
      File size:
      468.8 KB
      Views:
      7