Groves/McPherson

Discussion in 'Forum: Saw Identification and Discussion' started by fred0325, Apr 28, 2012.

  1. fred0325

    fred0325 Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    1,084
    Hello all,

    I've just lost all this post and so I hope that the original doesn't pop up anywhere.

    Anyway, when I bought this saw I thought that it was a "McPherson" only but on getting it, lo and behold a "USE" candlestick was on the blade and there was a nice blank medallion. This begged the questiion was it a brand or made for a retailer, and if it wasn't made for a retailer then I have done a lot of work for nothing.

    To cut a long story (see below if you are interested) short, it was probably made for the McPherson Brothers in Glasgow sometime between 1864 and 1870 -ish although from the handle, possibly to the latter end of those dates.

    The saw is very heavy, the blade is 26" and there is a fair length of "snout" after the nib. My electronic calipers are still suffering the after effects of being trodden on, but a visual reading of the saw plate thickness (cutting edge below the handle) is in excess of 1.5mm.

    There are words below the maker's mark, the majority of which I cannot read but one I think says "spring" with presumably "steel" after it, but that is as far as I can get. It is interesting to see that Mrs. McPherson carried on the business after the death or other demise of her husband. Also note the Macpherson in the 1865/66 directory (not my error this time) and the quaint 56 1/2 Main Street. It is the first time that I have seen houses numbered in halves.

    I think that this saw is one for my "Hall of Fame" - literally. See below.

    Fred

    Edit. Please note. The page numbers below may be inaccurate. This is because there are two page number indicators in this set of directories. One is the printed page number on the page (the proper one) and the other is that indicated by the search cursor. They do not always coincide and being lazy, I have used the search cursor, which can be consistent but wrong. I have only just found this out whilst researching something else.

    McPherson Dynasty
    All from Post Office Directories.

    1861/62 McPherson G. Tinsmith / Gasfitter 55 Main Street Bridgeton
    1862/63 and 1863/64 still McPherson G. Same address.
    1864/65 McPherson Bothers Ironmongers, Tinsmiths and Gasfitters at 40 Reid Street and 80 Main Street, Bridgeton and 12 Stevenson Street Calton. P217
    1865/66 MacPherson Brothers at 12 Stevenson Street, Calton p. 203
    1867/68 McPherson Brothers at 80 main Street, Bridgeton p.244
    1868/69 McPherson Brothers at 56 ½ and 68 Main Street Bridgeton p. 241
    1869/70 McPherson R and G at 56 1/2 Main Street p. 247
    1870/71 McPherson G. Plumber and Gas Fitter at 23 Paisley Road
    And
    McPherson Robert Ironmonger Tinsmith and Gasfitter at 56 ½ Main Street
    1871/72 McPherson Mrs Robert same occupations and address
    1872/73 McPherson G. Still there
    McPherson Mrs Robert still there
    1873/74 Mrs Robert McPherson still there
    McPherson G gone
    1877/78 McPherson Mrs Robert Furnishing Ironmonger p.326
    1878/79 Still there as Furnishing Ironmonger but at 132 Great Hamilton Street p. 339
    1879/1880 Gone.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Apr 28, 2012
  2. kiwi

    kiwi Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    355
    Nice saw Fred,

    The words in front of "spring" look like "...ble refined", (as in "double refined"), and I can almost see parts of "warranted" below (but that might just be overactive imagination).

    Definitely a suitable saw for your Hall of Fame (a.k.a. your "Saws 'all" ?)
     
  3. ray

    ray Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    671
    Hi Fred, Kiwi,

    I wonder if there is a connection to the Australian McPherson's The link (if there is one) would probably be this gentleman...

    Thomas McPherson was born in 1822 in Kingussie, in Inverness, Scotland. Like many Scotsmen of the period, McPherson decided to emigrate to Australia to try his luck in the newly established colony. McPherson arrived in Melbourne in 1852. McPherson launched his own business on Collins Street West, acting as a supplier for pig iron to the local foundry industry. The pig iron stock was brought in by trading ships coming to Australia to bring back wool and wheat to the United Kingdom.

    McPherson's dealings with foundries led him to develop other trade streams, such as supplying equipment and machinery and parts for workshops, machine tools, steam engines, and the like. By 1860, McPherson's business had evolved into a general hardware wholesaler and retailer.


    In consequence the McPherson name has a particular resonance in Australia, it was one of Australia's biggest and most prolific tool making firms of the 20th century, among other things they sold machine tools under the Macson brand name, and many other things. McPherson tool catalogs are still a great source of reference material.

    A brief company history of the Australian branch is here..
    http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/McPhersons-Ltd-Company-History.html

    Probably no connection, but you never know... :)

    Regards
    Ray

    PS... I love that "Hall of Fame" any chance of a guided tour perhaps one day..
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2012
  4. fred0325

    fred0325 Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    1,084
    Hi Ray and all,

    By the looks of the directories, Kingussie (pronounced, I think Kinussie) is the home of the McPhersons with the Clan Chief residing in Cluny Castle. Unfortunately the Scottish Directories between 1837 and 1845 only refer to "Gentleman's Seats", their occupants and addresses, so unless Thomas was a gentleman and had a "seat", which by the looks of it he wasn't and hadn't, then he won't be listed. But it is interesting that he came directly from Kingussie and not from elsewhere in Scotland.

    I will try to provide at some time in the future a tour of my "Hall of Fame" for you when I get the steps out to look which saw is where. The only saws that I know offhand is the first saw on the right which is the 1917 Taylor Brothers (you see it when you come out of the living room), and pride of place above the front door is the large blank medallion Groves.

    I am a little miffed that as yet I have no backsaws displayed but the logistics of putting saws on display in a walkway so that they don't decapitate or otherwise damage passers-by, are not easy. When I think of a safe way of getting them lower down on the wall, I will do it.

    Fred

    You are right Kiwi, Simon has just sent me an image (not very good unfortunately and I can't transfer it over here) of the wording on a Groves saw with the "Groves" where McPherson is on mine and the candlestick above it. It is "double refined spring steel" with "warranted" underneath it which is struck after the plate has been hardened, and therefore is not as deeply impressed into the metal. He would like ideas as to why it was done this way.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2012