Groves AND Greaves?

Hello all,

While traveling over the holidays I saw a back saw with stamps of two names on the spine. One was Groves and Sons, Sheffield (I think it was Sons) and there was another stamp to the right with Greaves and Sons with another location (if I remember correctly). I believe there was also the USE emblem to the left of the Groves and Sons stamp. There was a brass back and split nuts but no medallions. If I remember correctly the screw heads were smooth.

The price was too dear for the current condition of my pocketbook so I did not make a purchase but I am kicking myself now that I did not think to take a photo--since I had a camera buried among items in the car.

Have any of you ever seen a saw with both a Groves AND Greaves stamp?

Thanks,
Joe

 

Hi Ray,

Happy New Year!

I ran across a photo of a Groves saw here (the middle saw in the photo):
https://www.mjdtools.com/auction/graphics/i14/282724_lg.jpg

The arrangement of stamps on the spine seems similar to what I remember on the saw I mentioned.

Perhaps that helps.

Thanks,

Joe

 

Hi Joe,

The light is beginning to dawn on me re this. I think.

I have always assumed that the names to the right of Groves are retailers.

Greaves and Sons (sawmakers) 1839 to 1841(HSMOB) are from Sheffield.

Your name to the right of Groves was from elsewhere.

Could it be that your Greaves was a completely different person in a different town who was a retailer.

Confusing though it may be, it is the only thing that I can think of that fits.

Fred

 

Hi Fred,

What you say fits with what I remember.

There was a location (which I cannot remember) shown below Greaves and Sons that was different than the Sheffield stamped below Groves and Sons.

I guess this would be analogous to secondary etch of hardware retailers that I sometimes see to the right of the saw manufacturer's etch on U.S. saws.

Thanks much for your information!

Joe

 

Hi all,
The following may or may not have any bearing on this saw, but it does show that there was another Greaves in another location who probably sold saws. The link is here, and the key passage is this:
"Robert Greaves (16) was born in 1750 and died in 1832.... Robert left the butcher's shop of his father and began an ironmonger's shop on Jordangate, Macclesfield. There he worked for over 40 years, being recorded as a burgess in 1804....His eldest son Peter Greaves continued the ironmonger's shop."

 

There is a Sarah Greaves running an ironmongers in the Marketplace Macclesfield in 1850 (p.242 of Bagshaws 1850) but that is gone by 1868.

Possibly a surviving spouse.

But there are still questions on this re the medallions, or lack of. Under normal circumstances a lack of a medallion on a Groves would indicate a pre 1850 - ish saw. And this would tie in with the dates for this Greaves.

I don't know, however whether Groves made saws for third parties this early on. I have a feeling that this practice was not normal at this time.

This is the troubling bit. Anyone with any ideas.

Fred

 

Correction and Apology

I found myself again traveling through the area where I spotted this backsaw and this time I did have the sense to carry my camera with me.

To my chagrin, I see I did not remember the second name correctly. Whether it is my memory or eyesight (or both) to blame I am not sure, but I was wrong. The second name is Gleave, not Greaves.

I apologize for leading you down a blind alley.

Joe

P.S. Here are a couple photos.