Discussion on eBay Saws

Discussion in 'Forum: Saw Identification and Discussion' started by ray, Mar 30, 2014.

  1. Deesinister

    Deesinister Most Valued Member

    Hi Fred,
    I did look up the maker only because I thought the "Birmingham" addendum was curiously vague for an owners mark. BSSM lists two Thomas Gills (perhaps the same maker) between 1780 and 1788. This seems, to my untrained eye anyway, to fit the style of handle and the split nuts. What did strike me as curious was a stamp on the handle? I can see why planemakers wood stamp the wood rather than the iron, the body being obviously the major part of the plane not the blade which could be easily replaced, but for a saw maker ( from what I can gather from Simon's book) would often piece out the handle work to another man. I would imagine creating saw plate to be much more involved and skilled than creating an iron and would therefore be the bit you stamped. What are your thoughts?

    If its any consolation Fred, I foolishly thought my $37 bid might prove a winner ;)
  2. fred0325

    fred0325 Most Valued Member

    As you say, with a plane, the body is the major part of it. I is also an awful lot easier to stamp than the iron although most of the 19th century irons that I have seen have also been stamped (or more likely the name has been cast into the iron). But after this amount of time has elapsed you often get an iron from a different maker to the plane body.

    As for a saw then, yes, the blade is the complex and most important part but I can see no reason not to stamp the handle as well, even post manufacture and possibly even post fitting. The practice just did not catch on with sawmakers.

    The only thing about this saw is that we may never know if the name on the blade is Thomas Gill.

    It also has to be about the right time for Gill with, as you say, the handle shape but also the fact that the name is on the blade and not the back.

    I think that I was the 3rd bidder down. Had the blade been a bit more complete I would have gone a bit higher ( but then again maybe the two who beat me would also have gone higher).

    I had also spent an inordinate amount of money just before that on a Kenyon and on the Bayley that I have already posted on here and I was feeling a little bruised and beaten when it came to this one.

    Perhaps I should have gritted my teeth and gone a little more!!

  3. Deesinister

    Deesinister Most Valued Member

    Would love to see the Kenyon Fred :)
  4. Underthedirt

    Underthedirt Most Valued Member

    Dear all, I thought I'd share this listing (not mine!) that's on eBay in the UK at the moment, a late model Kenyon.

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  5. Hoppity55

    Hoppity55 New Member

    I am new to this forum and my real interest is old planes but I have an interest in all tools. On ebay UK today is a brass back tenon with the marks that appear to read
    USD below a logo of type can anyone tell me what USD is for it may not be a D as it is not fully formed. Whilst here I would lie to say hi, I have finally plucked up
    courage to post a question after viewing from afar for about two years. Don


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  6. fred0325

    fred0325 Most Valued Member

    Hi Hoppity /Don (although I much prefer Hoppity, -wish I had thought of it)

    The saw is, obviously a Groves and the USD is, in fact USE as in "Made For Use"

    This, (below) possibly is one of the most interesting threads on here about Groves


    This is a post from it

    ""Re:Groves and Sons LONDON 6 Years, 7 Months ago
    Hi Roger, Joe,

    The best explanation for the "USE" mark on Groves saws is as follows..


    And no, I don't believe it either....

    The question has been asked many times, and I've yet to hear a convincing explanation. Until then
    I'll lean towards the Evil Don Terwilliger version [​IMG]


    If it is still there, the swingleydev explanation is well worth a read.


    Edit/ This seller on Ebay thinks that it is USA and has done for some weeks now. Vickers is a Groves brand.

    Vintage Vickers USA Saw

    Seller information
    idlemild (6399 [​IMG]) [​IMG]
    99.9% Positive Feedback
    Follow this seller
    Visit Shop:
    [​IMG] NothingNewBournemouth
    See other items

    Registered as a business seller

    AdChoice[​IMG] - opens in a new window or tab
    Item information
    “Needs a clean and sharpen”

    Time left:
    Time left: 29d 20h (20 Jan, 2016 16:50:57 GMT)


    Located in United Kingdom


    If the end of the saw had not been broken so badly, I would have bought it for the medallion alone.
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2015
  7. Hoppity55

    Hoppity55 New Member

    Thanks Ray
    Thanks Ray

    I am just off to read up on Donald Terwillinger. I love these anomalies that are lost in time thats why I love old tools and the men that made them.
    Birmingham and Sheffield would have been warrens of workshops people scraping a living and to them those little jokes would have mad many face smile.
    Have a good Christmas
  8. steveatkinson

    steveatkinson Most Valued Member

    Recent Ebay encounter. I had suspect things might not always be what they appear to be. I was trolling through Ebay when I noticed, we now have some dedicated backsaw sellers, mainly of the more modern saws, in particular, here in the UK, the more common, but still sought after names were there in an abundance, Spear & Jackson, Marples & Tyzack seem to be the most common . The prices along with the titles always give me a chuckle.
    The word "RARE" seems to feature most often, more often than not when describing a second or perhaps 3rd or even 4th rate saw.
    One of the spear & jacksons I had noticed looked very strange, it was the handle the stood out the most, this had been taken from a much smaller saw and was now furnished on a much bigger saw, giving a rather ungainly appearance.
    I decided as the seller was indeed selling quite a list of saws, I would email them and see if they were able to tell me anything about said saw.
    To the sellers speed and efficiency, I got a reply back almost instant.
    The seller confirmed my suspicions, in fact they went much further, the handle, the back and indeed the saw studs, were all from different saws, but they assured me, all of said parts were from the same manufacturer, well there is a blessing at least, they were all at one time or another made by the same company.
    The seller had more information for me, they had learned so much in such a short period of time, the seller was now manufacturing there own unique saws. With said information the best I could do was wish them the best of luck and beat a hasty retreat .
    I am not casting aspersions as to any of the saws this company either make, repair or refurbish.
    Although I did decide pretty quick that perhaps this type of reworked vintage saw was not really what I was looking for. Trying to piece together the history of the saw manufacturing process of the UK backsaw is hard enough, mind, I must give the seller some credit, when I asked about the saw for sale in the listing, they were very quick to tell me, it had started life as many different saws it was not always fashioned as it was now.
    Although I did suggest that his for sale listing might be better for the rest of the information that they had been so good at supplying.
    My idea as to what constitutes a good back saw for resale or perhaps even your opinion as to what is in fact a good tool for resale is more than likley very different from other sellers. I buy saws, I do not sell them, my reasons for buying them are also very different to most, I am not looking for a tool to replace the last one I broke, it is a great bonus if in fact my purchase is up to the job it was made for, but that's a whole other story.
    If there are any Ebay sellers reading through this, please do not clean it, I think you will find most people prefer them exactly as found with the years of neglect and abuse given to it over so many years of use or lack of compete with rust if that's now how it looks.
    Whats that saying, "You can not please all the people all of the time, but if you manage to please some of the people some of the time, its a start
    Happy hunting where ever it may be.
    ray likes this.
  9. Force

    Force Active Member

    There is a saw on eBay at the moment listed as " vintage wood saw A Hodgson Leeds c1850". I have contacted the seller and politely advised him that the earliest that maker could be is 1881. I didn't receive a response since I contacted him and the saw has since been relisted without any editing of the date.
    Most of you have probably seen it but thought I would put it out there in the case of an unsuspecting new comer to the hobby or the like.
    It is a nice saw and I like it, positives of it for me are blank medallion, clear stamp and possibly very worn upper right hand thumb area or maybe a trick of the light. Downside, price, split nuts on nut side possibly recently messed with and possibly a glued crack on the lower lambs tongue.
    Cheers Chris
  10. fred0325

    fred0325 Most Valued Member

    Hello all,

    If this saw is anywhere near what the seller says that it is, then it will probably not be for sale when many of you read this.

    It is way too expensive for me, but some of you have deeper pockets than I and more of a liking for such things. (Were it to be British I would clench my teeth and buy it)

    What date it is, I would not hazard a guess but I would go for the 18th century, possibly the date headlined in the listing.



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