Barber and Genn problem resolved???

Hello all,

I have put the question marks in the title because as with most things old saw related, nothing is straightforward.

If there is a second "Fred's Law of Saw Collecting" it is probably articulated as:-
"If there are a lot of 'early' saws around, then the probability is that they are not early".

And I have suspected for a long time it is thus with some Barber and Genns.

Last night (quite late by GMT time), I read a post by Bob which quoted an article on W/S medallions.

It wasn't until I got to bed and was thinking about the subject (and yes - I am sad enough to think about saws in bed )- that I realised the import of what I had seen. Barber and Genn are supposed to have stopped making saws at any time from 1817 to 1825 -ish depending upon who you are talking to.

What I had seen, of course, was a Barber and Genn W/S medallion, with a very slightly modified British coat of arms.

W/S medallions like this are not supposed to exist prior to the early 1860's This means that either Barber and Genn were 35 years ahead of the W/S curve, or their mark was put on saws later than 1860. The latter being a belief that I have had for a long time but which has lacked any indicative evidence let alone proof.

The proof, I think is still lacking but this evidence is strongly indicative.

I say indicative only because the saw that this medallion is on has its own problems. The saw (it is a handsaw - see photo's below) has an S and J blade and the handle may or may not be native to this saw, let alone the medallion native to the handle - although it does look a good fit.

If the medallion is native to the handle, then this is supportive of a later saw by not having the expected early 1800's "London Flat".

But irrespective of all this, the W/S medallion stands on its own. As a rather important aside, does anyone know when medallions/label screws of any variety were first used. Groves did not use them until the 1850's and I do not know about any other makers. Query S and J? When did they start using them, or Robert Sorby?

This was posted by Vince:-

If you look in the "Register of Trademarks of the Cutlers' Company, Sheffield, 1919" on page 345, illustration 819 is "Barber & Genn". The trademark was registered to Ibbotson Brothers & Co., LTD. at that time. According to HSMOB, they operated between 1876 to 1915, and later than that I think. They probably made the newer looking saws we see on Ebay all the time.


from here :-

http://www.backsaw.net/index.php?option=com_jfusion&Itemid=58&jfile=showthread.php&t=294.

So, does anyone have any thoughts, ideas or refuting evidence.

Fred

The last two photo's are of marks which may be later. The 3rd photo is my saw. the 4th is one off Ebay.

PPS. I don't care how late or early it is, I would still love to have the B and G medallion. It is an absolute beauty and a wonderful example in my mind of a tarted up decoration for an export saw.