A mixed bag of parts perhaps but can anyone identify this saw

Hello
Let me start by introducing myself. My name is Kim and I live in Finland. I have a tool addiction but I also suffer from an over optimistic disease which means that I buy tools on the web without doing my research first. The end result is that some of the tools I acquire are not what I thought they would be.
My most recent example came in the shape of a 14 inch tenon saw with a unmarked brass back, a later era handle fitted to the plate and spine with three E.C. Atkins nuts made of brass.

The handle has three holes but the plate has four round holes and a rectangular one. The plate feels older than the handle but I could be wrong again.

What I cannot understand is that the plate shows no trace of being fitted with another handle. Also, if the handle was replaced it is odd that two of the existing holes matched the handle perfectly. With my limited experience this has seldom been the case.

I also feel that the saw plate and brass back are older than the handle. But I could be wrong - again.

I have exhausted sources at ukworkshop and sawmillcreek and no one seems to make sense of this saw so I'm hoping someone here might be able to help.

I know this saw could have been put together using parts from several saws. But the only way to find out would be to identify the handle. If the handle can be matched with a maker, then it can be compared with a saw by that maker and then I'd know for sure.

Pictures here:
Flickr.com/finnberg68/sets/72157639346729044

Many thanks, Kim

 

Hi Kim,

An interesting saw, and a bit of a puzzle.
I don't know the answer to the origin of your saw, but I won't let that get in the way of making some comments and wild guesses .

I've never seen any evidence of E C Atkins making this style of saw, nor any backsaws with a screw through the back. So I'd guess the screws are replacements (or at least the label screw)
The only North American backsaws with screws through the back that I'm familiar with are Richardson and Harvey Peace, but their saws had very different handle shapes and bolt patterns, and date from the late 1800s when manufacturers stamped their name on the saw back. So I'd guess its not Richardson or Peace, (and likely not from North America).

Spear & Jackson had a brass back saw with a somewhat similar handle and a screw through the back, but there were 4 screws, and the screw through the back was smaller which allowed the handle top to be chamfered alongside the back. Ray shows an example of this saw in an earlier thread http://www.backsaw.net/index.php?option=com_jfusion&Itemid=58&jfile=showthread.php&t=111
There's a slight possibility that your saw is a S&J version (do you think that the upper screw hole through the back of your saw has been enlarged to suit the current screw ? ), or it might be a copycat manufacturer to S&J
[Ray; does your saw have the back stamped by S&J ? ]

The puzzling part is the blade punching. I haven't seen a rectangular cutout in a backsaw blade before, so what is the rectangular hole for ? And the lower hole (which doesn't have a screw through it ) looks to be a larger size than the other screw holes, so was it there for a reason other than for a screw ? Were these holes made for some part of the manufacturing process on some automated saw fabricating machinery ? or for a different handle and handle fixing system ?

The other possibility is that this is a home built saw, made up of various pieces the builder had available, possibly some parts from other saws (a nice build effort if that's the case)

Whatever, its always good to have some mystery saws in your collection

 

Hey Kim
Welcome aboard.
Got to agree with Kiwi on a lot of the observations. I don't remember ever seeing an Atkins brass back here in North America and I don't know if they made some just for the European market, similar to Disston. The third whole punch on the plate suggests it was from another saw. I would guess this might have then been a user modification with parts to accomplish what they were looking for. The reason for that would be a guess also.
Neat saw.
enjoy
Joe S.

 

Hi Kiwi and Joe S
Many thanks for the replies. I have been asking about this saw for some time and almost everybody else in other forums have dismissed this saw entirely so I was very happy for you taking my questions seriously.
As much as I would want this to be an Atkins saw I agree that it most likely isn't. The handle lacks the double nibs at the top of the handle and I agree that a brass back on an Atkins saw has not been spotted.
One thing though. I used to own a 8 inch Atkins dovetail saw. It was fitted with a medallion and two nuts but because of the small size of the handle the top nut was positioned through the spine. So at least this very small saw was an unusual but genuine saw.
Interestingly enough Atkins backsaws were sometimes stamped and other times they weren't.
I agree that my saw could be just about anything. And most likely I will never find out. What strikes me as odd is that the handle looks youngish but the plate and back looks older. Yet both the back and handle display an equal amount of dents and use. I know this is difficult to judge. But another detail is that the saw plate was darkened by age and shows no signs of corrosion. The etch was also already worn illegible.
All I am saying is that the parts appear to be of similar age at least in terms of having been used.
I will check the holes but since it is now well past my bedtime I will have t get back to you.

 

Hi Ray
I have good news. I have been corresponding with Michael Merlo, a renowned saw restorer in the US and one of the few people I know who actually knows a bit more about the Atkins saws.. He tells me he owns a saw like mine and that my saw is a Atkins saw. Yesterday I also got a message from a English woodworker who told me he owns another Atkins saw with a similar appearance. I am hoping to receive a picture of his saw for comparison.
The English gentleman also told me that the backs on these Atkins saws are chamfered to fit the saw plate into a recess in the back. I'm not sure of other makers doing such a thing, but it certainly explains why the back of my saw was dead straight in alignment with the saw plate.

 

I am hoping to receive pictures from at least one of the others. Michael Merlo apparantly has too many saws and the other person is waiting for his grand children help him post images.
I have no idea about the age of the other saws. Quite frankly I am hoping the other two are identical to mine. Too much has been speculated already but to have at least two identical saws with the same medallions would silence most critics.

 

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?8608-Atkins-backsaw

 

No, unfortunately ... just connected it because of the Atkins backsaw reference.

I also hadn't seen any reference (that I remember) to Atkins backsaws ... although of course it makes sense.

Cheers,
Paul