“Late” - as in HILL LATE HOWEL

Discussion in 'Forum: Saw Identification and Discussion' started by shoarthing, Dec 21, 2021.

  1. shoarthing

    shoarthing Most Valued Member

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    I’ve searched for some while & can find no contemporary reference to Joseph Vaughan Hill being an apprentice to, waged employee, foreman, or partner of - or indeed having any relationship in life to: Joseph Howell of Chelsea.

    The sole connection I have seen is an trade advertisement of 1849, where Mr Hill describes himself as “successor to the late J. Howel” . . . .

    Can anyone recall seeing a solid contemporary source showing any relationship? If so, I would very much appreciate a link.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2021
  2. Lostarrow

    Lostarrow Active Member

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    26
    Did he perhaps just purchase the company , lock stock and barrel after the passing of Howell ?
     
  3. Lostarrow

    Lostarrow Active Member

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    26
    Rather than throw out the stock that was already produced and stamped he could’ve simply added his name until he ran out of stock from the previous owner .
     
  4. David

    David Most Valued Member

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    308
    Perhaps you should contact Simon Barley. He states in BSSM that J V Hill was foreman to J Howell. I'm sure he wouldn't say that without some documentation.
     
  5. shoarthing

    shoarthing Most Valued Member

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    61
    Thank you for the suggestion - but I have not seen sources to support that . . . .

    . . . . the key issue is J V Hill had just turned 13 when Joseph Howell died at 83 . . . bequeathing (I’ve read his Will) the continuation of his sawmaking business to his son & daughter, for their & his widow’s benefit.

    I can find no record of J V Hill being assigned to Joseph Howell as a pauper apprentice/parish apprentice: . . . in the early 1820s & in their respective parishes, such involuntary apprenticeships of children aged around 12/13 y.o. in families receiving Poor Relief were not uncommon; tho’ the customary age for parents to voluntarily enter their child into an indenture-with-premium in London’s skilled trades remained 14 years.

    Unless J V Hill *was* a pauper apprentice; it’s a challenge to see a relationship with Joseph Howell in life - they reside in different areas of London, do not appear to be familially related, there’s a 70 year age-gap, & Hill’s father follows a different trade.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2021
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