?J? Walters & Co

Discussion in 'Forum: Saw Identification and Discussion' started by kiwi, Oct 10, 2017.

  1. kiwi

    kiwi Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    352
    Another saw from the "bunch-o-saws" I snagged at a recent local estate auction.
    This is a 26" hand saw, 5 1/2 ppi, with the uncommon brass cone head saw screws.
    The mark is "? Walters & Co", "Sheffield" with three crowns
    P1030578.JPG
    [mark measurement; "Sheffield" is 22mm, estimate for entire "J??? Walters & Co" is 31mm]
    P1030581.JPG P1030579.JPG
    I didn't find Walters & Co listed in BSSM. With a bit of searching found a possible suspect in "John Walters & Co", 1841-1865, who operated a successful knife and cutlery manufacturing business. They occupied the "Globe Works" after the sawmaking Ibbotson Bros moved out in 1862, so it sort of fits that they might have sold a few saws under their name at some time.

    1847 advt from Graces Guide; (making knives on "carver" st. !)
    J Walters & Co.jpg
    (...or maybe I'm wrong, and my saw is from F Walter & Co, Solly Works, Sheffield, who have their name on braces and squares and...)
     
  2. fred0325

    fred0325 Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    1,084
    Hi Kiwi,

    I am afraid that I am going to be obsessive about the gaps in your lettering again. This time by the amount of space between where the first letter would be if it was on the same level as the "O" of Co., and the W of Walters.

    It is a big gap for merely an initial. particularly when you take into account that the lettering seems to be growing in size from left to right. You may well have room for another small but complete word there as opposed to an initial.

    I would also like to point, not entirely seriously, that just below your John Walters in the Sheffield 1856 directory (p 255 - proper page no. not HD page no.) is a Mrs Crookes Walters, and there are many Crookes in BSSM. (Although in this instance the Crookes is in italics and what that means in the context of Directory convention I don't know.)

    But it is a herring of a primary colour to throw into the (mixed metaphor) works.

    Fred

    Walters John & Co. merchants, & table knife, shoe, bread, & but-cher
    knife, dessert and fruit knife, &c. mfrs.. Gwbe Works
    Walters Mrs Crookes 11 Mrs Mary, 24 William street

    NB The 11 isn't 11 in the directory it is two long vertical bars
     
  3. kiwi

    kiwi Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    352
    Yes Fred, the gap is a bit fishy, enough room for a complete "JOHN", or maybe "J & G", or perhaps something completely different.
    ("no comment" on your herring)
     
  4. kiwi

    kiwi Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    352
    Mystery solved, sort of.
    Found another saw with a clear "John Walters & Co" stamp,
    but it has a Groves "Established 1770" medallion.
    John Walters & Co were manufacturers of cutlery, with a specialty in Bowie knives and daggers. They had a huge American trade, and were one of the largest Sheffield firms around 1860 when they operated out of the Globe Works on Kelham Island. As well as cutlery and knives, they are reported to have traded in steel and tools, but when the American trade collapsed John Walters & Co went down with it and declared bankruptcy in 1864.
    I suspect this saw was made by Groves around 1850s-1864, on order for Walters & Co, who shipped it to North America (I found the saw in Ontario Canada)
    P1040546.JPG P1040543.JPG P1040544.JPG P1040545.JPG
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2022
    David likes this.