E m boynton

Discussion in 'Forum: Saw Identification and Discussion' started by kiwi, Apr 13, 2011.

  1. kiwi

    kiwi Most Valued Member

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    353
    Sometimes you come across exceptions to “Fred's Lawâ€￾ on saw purchases, and you find you have something more interesting than you were expecting. :)
    After a $6 winning bid at an estate auction last week I came home with a handful of saws. One Nicholson saw with steel screws looked like it could be a “userâ€￾ (as if I need another user saw !), another rusty saw had a nib but its handle was heavily painted and had a missing top horn and was cracked and missing a screw, the other saws were well rusted modern steel screw Disston and WS saws.
    Since the painted saw had a rounded lobe hand hole I thought it might be a Disston D-12, but when I cleaned the paint out of the medallion I found a nice new-to-me “E M Boynton, New Yorkâ€￾ medallion hiding beneath. Some research gave a HSMONA listing for E M Boynton of 1869-1887
    Unfortunately I couldn't find a legible etch under the rust on the blade, and some scratches showed evidence of rigorous previous cleaning.
    I took the handle off the blade to check for evidence of a frankensaw, but the bade and handle seem to be a match, with a good fit, no extra screw holes, partial ppi stamp still on the heel and a "40" stamped in the plate beneath the handle (what does that mean ? ), and no indication of blade reshaping/shortening.
    The screws are very interesting in that they have the skinny 1/8th inch shafts typical of the early split nuts, but they sit proud of the wood surface with domed heads and cap screws like modern screws. The medallion has Munger's “Pat Dec 21 1869â€￾ on the face, and the regular screws also have this date under the screw cap. It seems as though these screws are a transition design between split nuts and the modern Glover style screws.
    I used paint stripper to clean the multiple layers of red grey and white paint off the handle (not a quick and easy task, as the paint was into all the nicks and dings that the handle had received prior to each painting) The wood didn't look like the usual beech or apple, and when I trimmed into original wood to make ready to attach a new top horn I found the pinkish hue of a rosewood handle (I think).
    So my overpainted broken-horned rubbish-looking saw seems to be an uncommon and quality saw in disguise, (This could be a really bad thing for my already bad case of saw collectovitus :) )
    Now I'm looking for a scrap of rosewood to make a new horn, a suitable screw to replace the missing one, and with a bit more cleaning and finishing I'll have my Boynton restored
    (If I don't get side tracked chasing my next lot of estate auction saws)

    Pictures show markings on medallion and nuts, comparison of Boynton medallion screw with modern style medallion screw and a traditional split nut, saw handle.
     

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  2. fred0325

    fred0325 Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    1,084
    Hi Kiwi,

    I am absolutely ecstatic that my "Law" has been broken. I only wish that I could break it myself sometimes.

    I can add nothing about your particular saw, but on Googling E M Boynton I found the following link.

    http://www.wkfinetools.com/hUS-saws/BoyntonE/tools/boynton-Tools.asp

    The saw in the etch/drawing looks to be a fair bit later than yours, but the medallions (go to the backsaw) look to have the same detail, albeit they too look to be of different ages.

    If there is not a stamp on your saw blade, might it be that the etch on the handsaw in the picture adorned your saw as well? An interesting thought although purely speculative.

    If you follow the link from wkfinetools to the toolemera press, in their museum under catalogues there is a Boynton catalogue which looks to be 1872/1873. There is a drawing of one handsaw in it but a load of information.

    Hope this is of some help and I am not duplicating what you have already done

    Fred
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2011
  3. ray

    ray Administrator Staff Member

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    669
    Hi Kiwi,

    Congratulations on breaking Fred's Law... a rare exception indeed.

    I've often wondered about that handle pattern with that shaped hand cut out. Can it be used in two handed fashion?
    By that I mean that you would grip normally with the right hand, and then hook the left thumb into the extra space near the bottom of the grip.

    A bit like the thumb-hole rip type, but with the left hand more in line with the teeth?

    I hope you can find some suitable timber to restore the handle! Should look good.

    Regards
    Ray
     
  4. mattsworld

    mattsworld Member

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    23
    Kiwi

    Very, very cool saw....a rare find indeed! Boynton was a bit of a unique character....he went on to design and patent all sorts of cool things, one of which was bicycles, if memory serves (Josh Clark knows a lot about Boynton!)

    I've been looking for his saws for a little while, but no luck yet...i'm impressed!

    If memory serves firther, I believe Disston acquired Boynton in the later 1870's or so....so don't rule out that your saw could in fact be made by Disston. The handle does look strikingly similar to a Disston #9. Again, I need to check my timeline to be sure about Disston buy out...can anyone else shed some light in teh meantime???

    -Matt
     
  5. mattsworld

    mattsworld Member

    Messages:
    23
    Kiwi

    I read up a little just for a minute on Wiktor's site (wkfinetools) and it looks like I was not correct about Disston...it only says Boynton sold out his patents to a New York Company.

    So, nonetheless, a nice find and please post pics when you finish your rehab!

    -Matt
     
  6. ray

    ray Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    669
    Hi Kiwi,

    After a little googling for EM Boynton, here is a little more information that I'll post here for the sake of keeping it all together in one place.

    Ebden Moody Boynton appears to be an interesting character, as Matt has said, he was involved in the "Boynton Bicycle Electric Railway" of all things..

    A list of his saw related patents is here on datamp

    http://www.datamp.org/patents/search/xrefCompany.php?id=1718

    A New York times article in 1883 that might add a little to the company history is here

    http://www.backsaw.net/pics/BoyntonNYtimes1883.pdf

    It seems EM Boynton left the Saw business after some years and the company subsequently had financial difficulties...

    Regards
    Ray
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2011
  7. ray

    ray Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    669
    Hi Kiwi,

    You will already have seen this Advertisment in HSMONA, but I'll post it here for the benefit of others.

    [​IMG]
    Image above scanned from "Handsaw Makers of North America" by Erwin L Schaffer [page94]

    And a close up of the two handles in the centre.

    [​IMG]

    The top handle is the Number 7 and underneath it is the Number 8, I think yours is more like the Number 8, just going on the screw hole positions, and the shape of the heel.

    As to the significance of the 40 stamped under the handle, I notice there were multiple factory addresses in Devoe Street Brooklyn, 34,36,38,40,42

    I wonder if the 40 stamp was to identify which factory it was made in?

    Regards
    Ray
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2011
  8. kiwi

    kiwi Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    353
    Thanks for the input everyone.

    Fred: I think I can see some lines/squiggles indicating remnants of part of an etch, although I'm going crosseyed with the magnifier on the stain/rust/residue marks, and may just be imagining things (Its like looking at the clouds in the sky and picking out images)
    As you noted, it's interesting that the wkfinetools Boynton medallion has the 1867 Washbourne patent date whereas mine has the 1869 Munger patent date.

    Matt; I'll post pictures of the renovated saw when its done. (I've got some work to do to reach your high standard of reno !). It might take me a while as I seem to have problems properly finishing jobs, and find the hunt for old saws in the wild more alluring than completing the finishing/renovating of the saws I've got (Its part of the collecting sickness !)

    Ray: Regarding the handle grip shape, I can sort of make a two handed grip by putting one thumb into that extra space and the other thumb into the top of the grip, for sawing towards me with the blade near vertical, or similarly when turning the saw upside down for an undercut, but its not really comfortable and I've never cut that way (maybe I should practice).
    The No 8 saw picture does seem a slightly better fit for my handle, (definitely not a top-of-the-line carved No12 handle. There's Fred's law putting me back in my seat )
    40 representing the address.....seems a reasonable idea. (We need input from other owners of Boynton saws to support this theory)
     
  9. kiwi

    kiwi Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    353
    For Matt

    I cleaned the Boynton saw and did some repair, not entirely successfully.
    The new top horn on the handle didn't absorb the oil finish as readily as the old handle, so the final colour does't match after finishing.
    Sometime in the future I may try to fix the stain to get a better match, and maybe shave a bit off the new horn as its a bit too long
    However the saw does cut well, after my attempt at sharpening, and despite the two missing teeth :)

    I'm assuming that the quality of my renovation work will improve with practice, (and I have a pile of saws to experiment on) Hopefully that's not too bold an assumption.
     

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