Cheetham

Discussion in 'Forum: Saw Identification and Discussion' started by fred0325, Apr 10, 2016.

  1. fred0325

    fred0325 Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    1,084
    Hello all,

    I offer this saw up without much hope of an identification beyond my WAGging.

    For those of you who have BSSM, there is a Cheetham, Southampton from 1875 to 1903 and the mark on my saw looks remarkably like the mark on his (minus the "Southampton").

    It probably is this man, but I have a slight residual hope that it is a pre "Marshall and Cheetham" Cheetham. In this case it would have to be early 1830's, and while the handle at a pinch could be, the back (realistically) looks later than this date.

    Under normal circumstances when faced with a saw with no "cast steel" mark or place of manufacture, I would go for it being a brand. But this only pushes the ID back one step - a brand of whom??

    Any ideas greatly appreciated.

    Fred
     

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  2. Underthedirt

    Underthedirt Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    224
    Hi Fred, that's a nice looking saw, the font has serifs to it, so that plus the early looking handle- plain arris on the nose, 2 x bolts only + "London Flat" maybe it could be the pre Marshall & Cheetham? The hang angle is quite low & old looking too, how thick is the handle? Most of my few early saws are quite thin thickness through the handle 14/16" / 20mm or thereabouts. Also there appears to be 2 x holes under the handle, is that corrosion perhaps?
    Just my 2cents worth....:)

    Regards

    Mari
     
  3. fred0325

    fred0325 Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    1,084
    Thanks Mari,

    The handle is 20/22mm thick which puts it by my working out at about 7/8th inch. I have lost my calipers and so cannot give you an exact measurement. On looking at the indent where an index finger has been, the hand angle is about right in that it looks to be somewhere near the centre of the blade although I think that my natural finger placing would be a little higher, even overlapping the rear of the chamfer a little. As for the holes, their purpose eludes me. There is not enough corrosion (virtually none) around them to indicate that they, themselves have been put in as a result of it. Had it been corrosion (which was my first thought) it must have been very localised.

    What also eludes me is Mr George Cheetham of Marshall and Cheetham. The man appears not to exist outside of this partnership, at least in any incarnation remotely connected with saws or the iron or cutlery trade. There is one Geo. Cheetham in the 1833 directory but he is a farmer at Darnall. (A place very near Sheffield).

    I got the Geo. Cheetham (from BSSM) who is reportedly? reputedly/presumably in the/a 1841 directory. I have searched Slaters 1841 and can find neither hide nor hair of a George Cheetham or, indeed, a Marshall and Cheetham. There is a Marshall and Co. which is noted in BSSM as sharing the same address in Gibralter Street as Marshall and Cheetham.

    Neither can I find a Mr George Cheetham in any Sheffied directory from 1822 to the 1850's.

    Now, I cannot ask any of you to search the online Historical Directories a they are such awful things to search, but if anyone could point me in the right direction for the elusive Mr. Geo. Cheetham, then I would be grateful.

    Fred
     
  4. Barleys

    Barleys Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    546
    For some reason that I've never fathomed, there are two entirely different 1841 Sheffield directories: I expect I got George C from the one that isn't Slater's.
    Personally I'd have difficulty in thinking this saw could be as early as the 1840s. Maybe a Cheetham of Southampton saw imperfectly marked? A bit of desperate guess, and I'll happily step aside for a less desperate.
     
  5. admin

    admin Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    32
    There was a George Cheetham in the Sheffield debtors gaol in 1841, but he claimed to be a journeyman grocer..
    see the entry for May 28th 1841 https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/19982/page/1388

    Interesting that one of his addresses was in Rockingham Street, a veritable hot bed of saw manufacturing. :)

    ( I know that doesn't help, but thought it an interesting aside)

    Ray