Thomas Turner London Spring

Discussion in 'Forum: Saw Identification and Discussion' started by fred0325, Apr 10, 2017.

  1. fred0325

    fred0325 Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    1,015
    Hello all,

    This sawmark is identical in style to a mark that BSSM has, except that instead of "German Steel" this is marked London Spring.

    I am hoping that it is around the same date as the example in BSSM, which would put it (at 1840) within the first few years of Thomas Turner's foray into saw making, although not, apparently his selling of saws factored for him by others. This probably goes back at least 20 years before this date.

    This saw came from America, and so I wonder if they sent their best quality saws for export?

    I must admit that I don't take much notice of saws marked "Turner" nowadays in any of their various guises and so it should come as no surprise that I haven't noticed any with "London Spring" on. Neither are there any that I can see in BSSM.

    Are there any more out there? Pics of said saws would be greatly appreciated.

    Fred
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Nkick

    Nkick New Member

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    2
    Hi Fred, my panel saw has the same etching identified as c1880 in BSSM and to the left of it is another etch - not sure it helps with the dating of yours, but pics attached anyway!

    1.JPG 2.JPG
     
  3. fred0325

    fred0325 Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    1,015
    Thanks for the picture.

    What an absolutely wonderful etch (and the saw that carries it).

    Is this an export saw as well?

    Looking at the teeth it also looks like a user, although I would be terrified of diminishing the etch if it was used.
    Perhaps some practice sawing to a depth of about an inch, just to keep the teeth bright.:)

    BSSM has the "Thomas Turner" part of the etch and dates it , as you say about 1880. But Simon does not have the "London Spring" etch that goes with it. It may well make a nice addition to BSSM 2 (in whatever form it takes).

    Fred
     
  4. Nkick

    Nkick New Member

    Messages:
    2
    I do use it regularly - it is such a good saw that I could not leave it on the shelf, I'm afraid!

    Although I acquired it in the UK (ebay) I can only guess at its history - sorry!
     
  5. gmac

    gmac Member

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    17
    Hi Fred,

    I too have a Thomas Turner saw, which has a 'refined steel stamp'.

    But, is it odd for a saw to have both etched and stamped?

    Graham.

    tt1.jpg tt2.jpg tt3.jpg tt4.jpg tt5.jpg
     
  6. Joe S

    Joe S Most Valued Member

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    300
    Fred et al
    Great collection of Turner saws.
    Graham, that double Turner is not something I have seen. I am only guessing but I wonder if it was in the Tweener stage of stamp and etch. Stock sitting around with stamps got an etch to really embolden the "quality" of the saw. That handle is in just wonderful condition.
    enjoy that one
    Joe S.
     
  7. fred0325

    fred0325 Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    1,015
    Hello all again,

    I am putting this backsaw here because it is probably quite an early Turner, and it is always useful to have related things in the same thread.

    This was another buy-it-now on Ebay and I couldn't make out the name, but it had (probably, from the indistinct photo of the uncleaned back) Cast.Steel and so it had to be worth a go.

    The mark is in the same format as the 1840-ish one in BSSM, but with a different font.

    The question now is, is this an very early Thomas Turner manufacture, or a pre-Turner- manufactured saw?

    The Cast. could make it compatible with either and I shall probably never know which.

    The handle is almost certainly wrong for the putatively early mark. There is a bit of play in the handle but even when the beak is touching the back, the chamfer is still angled slightly upwards. I also think that I can see remains of orange/yellow varnish which would put the handle in the last 25 years of the 19th century at the earliest (I think).

    The eagle eyed amongst you will also have seen what is probably a label screw with a chunk of lead attached (presumably soldered) to it. This is really bugging me and at some stage I am going to take off the screw and "unsolder" it. But of course, this is the only screw that has had its shank burred over slightly and so it is not a straightforward or quick removal.

    Fred
     

    Attached Files:

  8. Barleys

    Barleys Most Valued Member

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    518
    Graham's is a rarity (agree with Joe's comment) – I've only seen one similar, partly shown on p283 of BSSM, but there the etch is too poor. This Turner etch is surely amongst the deepest – almost engraving depth. Lovely (and I've screen-shotted it for the update, Graham: hope that's OK). Simon
     
  9. gmac

    gmac Member

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    17
    Simon,

    I could try to take a few more better quality photos of the Turner stamps and etching for you, if you need a better choice for your update work.

    Do you need dimensions at all?

    Graham
     
  10. Barleys

    Barleys Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    518
    Many thanks, Graham: more pictures to choose from is always a nice extra, and dimensions are even better: I reckon to register the length of a mark as the maximum distance between any of the letters, even when there are several words or decoration, as in the attached (a Groves ornamental grafting saw of around 1850 – 75 mm to the outside of the flourishes). Simon IMG_6591.jpg
     
    Underthedirt likes this.
  11. gmac

    gmac Member

    Messages:
    17
    Simon,

    here are a few more photos of the Thos. Turner etch & stamps.
    sizes are in metric,

    1st is 12 x 3
    2nd is 98 x 42
    3rd is 78 x 11

    hope they are of help.

    Regards

    Graham

    thos. turner 1.jpg thos. turner 2.jpg thos. turner 3.jpg