Sanderson & Son 10" Dovetail Saw

Discussion in 'Forum: Saw Identification and Discussion' started by Underthedirt, Jan 16, 2016.

  1. Underthedirt

    Underthedirt Most Valued Member

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    Dear all, I would like to share with you my most recent addition to my saws.
    I do apologise in advance if anyone else was bidding on this one.
    It is a 10" brass back open handed dovetail saw, the spine is arrised & tapers slightly from 10/16ths at the toe to 11/16th at the handle end.
    The spine is stamped "Sanderson & Son" in an arched type banner, the plate is about 21 thou, both nuts have been off at some stage, but looking at the large amount of index finger rubbing wear it was a long time ago.
    It has been cleaned a little too much on the spine, but thankfully with no abrasives & the handle has been left alone.
    I haven't had an open handed saw with the slightly rounded nose before, all of my others have a sharper point on their nose.
    I've had a look through BSSM & can't see a Sanderson & Son in there.
    I did find a reference to Sanderson & Son in a thread by Joe S about a John Sanderson, it's mentioned there about a maker of the same name around circa 1833.
    It's a lovely wee saw, the handle is quite small, & the top horn by some miracle is intact, with only minor bumps on the bottom dolphin tail.
    I'm wondering if it could be by the same Sanderson & Son as in Joe's thread, I'm interested to hear any ideas on date or place of origin if this little saw.
    Regards

    Mari
     

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  2. Joe S

    Joe S Most Valued Member

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    Mari
    What a wonderful thing this saw is. I can't imagine it being anything other than that "saw and beer maker" union. The typical Sanderson arch with the son and the completely new example of the serrated decoration around the outside mimics the usual John Sanderson marks . Maybe Simon will chime in if he has something new. It is a rounder nose but sometimes I wonder if they get bumped so much they just look rounder than the original might have been. It is still definitely rounder than the later saw cheeks. ahhhh and the ubiquitous paint splatters that any self respecting saw couldn't be without.
    enjoy
    Joe S.

    As an aside, I can't thank Ray enough for keeping and maintaining this site. It was only a few years ago that I posted the original thread and I had forgotten about some of the "small anecdotes" or tid bits that we see later may have shed some light on new finds. Simon's book is fantastic for all its info and we really are blessed with his perseverance to get it done. I liken this site almost to a living organism that continues to educate and entertain. Keep adding and don't suppress anything too trivial because I think everything helps. I may be preaching to the choir here so I will now step off the box.
     
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  3. fred0325

    fred0325 Most Valued Member

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    1,051
    Hi Mari,

    I have just deleted a load of saws from my watch list and so I am not certain, but I am pretty sure that I bid on this one. And if I didn't I certainly meant to.

    It is a truly wonderful saw and I am glad that someone from here got it.

    A rarity, and in excellent condition as well. Don't worry about the cleaning. Time will undo what has been done to the brass.

    Fred
     
  4. Underthedirt

    Underthedirt Most Valued Member

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    166
    Hi Joe & Fred,
    Thank you for your replies...:) Joe I would like to hope that it is by the "saw & beer maker" of your previous posting, and Fred- my apologies if you were the under bidder.
    This forum is indeed a wonderful site to meet & share our passion for vintage saws, Ray G, thank you for making it available....;)

    Regards

    Mari
     
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  5. Joe S

    Joe S Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    310
    Hey Mari,
    It has been a bit since this post and the much earlier post on John Sanderson and some of the early saws that he may have made.
    http://www.backsaw.net/forum/index.php?threads/john-sanderson.212/
    I would like to add another example to the group. It seems to be that there were a few variations in the early stamps depending on the age of the saw. The saw I am presenting has a stamp similar to to the example Simon has in his book. He dates it to about the 1830s. My earlier saw had the name John in front of the Sanderson and this saw is without it as is Simon's. It is also an 8 " brass back open handled saw with two small brass split nut fasteners. Warranted is also stamped in the brass. It was well loved but still cuts a nice fine line. I would only be guessing where this stamp variation be in his timeline but anyone else who has an idea is welcome to share.
    enjoy
    Joe S.
     

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  6. Underthedirt

    Underthedirt Most Valued Member

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    166
    Hi Joe,

    That's a lovely little saw, cast.steel, it would be a fairly early use of the Warranted stamp too I'd imagine. The hang angle is quite high, would it be comfortable to use? Thanks for sharing..:)

    Regards

    Mari
     
  7. JPRI

    JPRI New Member

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    2
    Hi All...This is my first post. I recently found this saw marked Wm Sanderson & Sons, and I found this forum. Wondering it's age (1830-50?), and if anyone else has seen a similar stamp.
     

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  8. Underthedirt

    Underthedirt Most Valued Member

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    166
    Hi JPRI,

    That is a nice looking saw, I couldn't find a Wm Sanderson in BSSM, perhaps it's a factored saw for a retailer by one of the bigger makers? It looks similar to saws made by Groves around the 1850-70s, deep vee notch in the handle & sharply formed lambs tongue, chamfered back / spine top & bottom edge & the very rounded toe of the spine- but that's just my opinion.
    Looking at the work in making the handle it certainly looks like a 1st quality saw.
    I wonder what the hole in the plate was for?
    Thanks for sharing & welcome to the forum.

    Regards

    Mari
     
  9. fred0325

    fred0325 Most Valued Member

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    1,051
    Hi,

    Mari looks to have the date about right, but an additional indicator is the word "Sheffield", with a mixture of the upper case "S" and the rest lower case.

    BSSM puts this style of mark between 1840 and 1870.

    Fred
     
  10. JPRI

    JPRI New Member

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    2
    Thanks for the info Mari and Fred...BTW, think it's a hang hole, which begs the question, why?? John
     
  11. fred0325

    fred0325 Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    1,051
    Just a bit more on the possible Sanderson who made/retailed your saw.

    I have taken a quick look through the Historical Directories for 1849, 1852, and 1862

    Here is the 1849 entry for all the Williams
    Sanderson Wm. mfr. of forks, steels, butcher knives, &c. 96 Carver st
    Sanderson ""Vm. warehouseman, 43 Pye bank
    Sanderson Wm. beerhs. & shopr j & Ann, uphostrs. 44 Charles street
    Sanderson Wm. comb maker, 30 Duke street


    Here is the entry for 1852
    Sanderson 'iV m. mfr. offorks, steels, & butch(n·s' kni vcs, 96 Car-rer st
    Sanderson 'iVm. comb maker, & Elizabeth, dressmaker, 30 Duke st
    Sanderson \Ym. bee1hs. & shop!". & :Mrs. upholstress, 44 Charles st
    Sanderson 'iYm. coal dealer, Queen street, l'hiladelphia


    Here is the entry for 1862
    Sanderson Walter, ironmonger and cutlery
    dh-., ul Norfolk street; h Clough bank
    Sanderson William, shopr., 33 Amlrew st

    Sanderson William and Sons, cutlery casters,
    and manufacturers of table knives,
    forks, steels, &c., and general merchants,
    96 Carver street

    William Sanderson is there throughout, although not as a manufacturer of saws and sometime bewteen 1852 and 1862, he is joined by some "Sons" (possibly one at first, then another one later??) and by this time he is a general merchant as well. (Possibly retailer of saws??)

    If this man and his sons is your saw maker/retailer it looks as though he is doing it after 1852 but before 1862 and has ceased before 1879, the directory entry for which is here (or not here as the case may be)

    Sanderson William, beerhouseand grocer, 49 J enkin rd. B
    Sanderson William, grocer and beerhouse, 35 Addey st
    Sanderson William, shopkeeper and baker, 58 J ohnson st
    Sanderson William, (j) saw smith, 92 Pomona street
    Sandford Rev George, M.A. vicar of St. Jude's (Eldon),

    although just to complicate matters there is a William Sanderson who is a saw smith.:)

    These dates tie in very well with the "Sheffield" stamp style in BSSM and Mari's, what I can only refer to as extraordinary dating ability from the handle style only.

    But after all this, there is the possibility or a strong possibility that this is not your man.:rolleyes: So believe what you will.

    And to add a final , possibly off topic touch, BSSM recounts a story of how, in 1843 a William Sanderson and a man called Naylor (cutlers) were publicly humiliated for counterfeiting steel by having their stock ceremonially destroyed in one of the town's squares.:( This, I am presuming, is NOT your man.

    Fred







     
  12. Underthedirt

    Underthedirt Most Valued Member

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    166
    You've done some great digging there Fred, the 1862 & Sons entry sounds like a good candidate (I really don't know how you find all this great info!!)... for the dating also, "warranted" is more often later rather than earlier & also a "Warranted Superior" medallion is right in that period, plus, the saw also has large fasteners, a lot of the earlier saws have tiny little things- but there are exceptions to those rules. Still most likely a old 150 year old saw, very nice indeed. John, I'm with you on the hanging hole- just hang it on the handle...!

    Regards

    Mari