Hey Ray There was a previous discussion on another forum about a Mitchell,Wreakes and Co saw that Lynn was trying to identify. This saw I have may have come through that company line but is significantly different enough to take a look at. This is a closed handled 14\" brass back with the Mitchell&Co stamp Cast.Steel impressed into the spine. Cast Steel has the dot between it. There is a faint (indecipherable) letter mark before the Mitchell that looks like the top of a J. The very clean blade tapers from 2\" at the toe to 2 1/4\" at the heel. The closed beech tote is held on by two 7/16\" brass nuts. When we give stats to these saws one thing we don\'t include is weight which can be a significant thing with the ease it can cut without any downward pressure and this tops out at 1 3/4 Lbs. More Saws later. Joe
Re:Mitchell & Co Hi Joe, There is only one Sheffield J Mitchell & Co and that\'s Joseph Mitchell & Co Shude Hill Sheffield 1787 There is a John Mitchell 94 Newington Causeway London 1891-1910 I would think it\'s more likely the Joseph Mitchell than John Mitchell, The dot in the cast steel stamp, tends to be early (as discussed before) the smaller screws and fewer in number usually is a pointer to earlier, The roundness at the bottom of the spine (where the blade is inserted) later saws tend to be squarer and less rounded. This one is rounded. Which is an early indicator. So, conclusions.. It ticks all the boxes for being late 18th early 19th Cent The Dolphin Pattern, I note that in Don McConnells HSMOB he indicates that the Dolphin Pattern pre-dated the London Flat Pattern, of course the patterns come back into fashion over time, but the London Flat is generally after 1790, (according to HSMOB ) I would like to confirm the Letter \"J\" if that\'s possible, did you see Peter Evan\'s technique for picking up faint stamps.. (1) sand the area with wet&dry and WD40 or equivalent to remove the crud -- ( I would skip this step..) (2) get a candle and a tea strainer (keep tea strainer at the top of the flame) and smoke the area where the mark is located (3) place a wide piece of sticky tape over the mark and pull the sticky tape off, and you have the mark (4) place the sticky tape on a sheet of white paper and scan. You then have a pretty clear image. Regards Ray
Re:Mitchell & Co Thanks Ray. I would love to confirm that it is a \"J\" also but as you can see the whole imprint is at an angle and the letter is just a flat line for a \"hat\" that is obliterated by the bevel. It could be just a very bad scrape that has really mellowed over the years but in any case it would seem to be relatively early and puts it in a ball park. Keep up the good work Cheers Joe
Re:Mitchell & Co Hi Joe, I got a little time to do some checking on Joseph Mitchell, he is mentioned in Simon Barley\'s Thesis although there is only the 1787 Gales and Martin directory reference, he was in several partnerships amongst which were, Samuel Thompson ( the 1794 works manager at Boulsover rolling mills) Mitchell was also listed (at the same time) as being in partnership with Hutton, who was Kenyon\'s partner in 1774, and by 1805 (1817 in SB thesis) in partnership with Wreaks. There is a background of shifting partnerships in this period, and I think the simpler mark of ? Mitchell & Co would indicate the earlier firm. Looking at Lynn Dowds \"Mitchell Wreaks & Co\" (1805-1819) it has 3 screws and a London pattern handle. Whereas yours has only the two screws, and Dolphin Pattern. Summarizing 1787 J Mitchell & Co Shude Hill 1797 Mitchell Thompson & Co Forge Street 1805-1819 Mitchell Wreaks & Co Norfolk Street Regards Ray
Hello Joe, Rather than title a third post "Mitchell & Co", I'm tacking this saw on here. It seems appropriate since it has the same name stamp as your example, the same 7/16" nuts, the same shaped back curving down to the blade and more or less the same handle, differing only by being a London Pattern rather than a dolphin handle. However, it is stamped German Steel rather than Cast-Steel, it seems to have more of a bevel on the cheek than your example, and it has a back which tapers in thickness from 15/16" at the handle to 3/4" at the toe (the back in your example appears to be parallel over its length, but I'm not sure I can tell). So what do these similarities and differences mean? I'm not sure. The one thing that seems definitive is the German Steel stamp, since the other differences don't necessarily make the saw later than the last decade of the 18c (I think). It does seem a commonly held belief that the German Steel stamp only begins to appear c. 1820, although I'm not sure I've ever learned what evidence confirms that belief. In that light, I'd appreciate hearing from others more knowledgeable to help clear up my fuzzy thinking here. Regards, David
Hey David I would say the dates are very comparable. For some reason I always felt that my saw would be more of an early 19th century saw as it has so many of the traditional elements that became the standards. The late 18th century saws I have seen in pictures always have some sort of oddity that or anomaly that gives it an earlier and less predictable pattern. These are still early. Just my WAG Joe S.
AARGH - not Mitchell!! One of the hardest to pin down, as there are 14 entries under that name in my database. Most marks just say, not exactly with helping the collector in mind, just "Mitchell", sometimes with an & Co. I would put my money on both these being late offerings by the Mitchell, Wreaks partnerships (see below) - &Co was often a cheaper mark to make than the long one with all the names. The style fits reasonably well with the late 1820s in having a dash between the words German and Steel; it's only just out of the period when the ampersand was designed to look as though it was falling over backwards, and I don't think any 18th cent saws did not have that appearance. It's also not typical of any of the later Mitchells (post 1840) in omitting the word Sheffield (and no, I have no idea who this Hawksley was). MITCHELL, WREAKS & Co SHEFFIELD Norfolk Street 1811-1817 HAWKSLEY, WREAKS & Co Norfolk Street 1816-1820 WREAKS, Joseph & Co Norfolk Street 1821 MITCHELL, Samuel & Co 51 (53) Norfolk Street 1821-1825 The 1809 directory lists Hawksley, Wreaks & Co as merchants in Norfolk Street. Mitchell’s 1821 directory entry reads “merchants, bar, cast steel, shear steel, edge tools, saws, scythes, hay and straw knives, emery etc manufacturersâ€, and Wreaks’ is almost word for word the same. Wreaks (or his father) had been a partner with Thomas Boulsover, and Mitchell was also a member of the extended family. It is difficult to understand what were the business relationships in the list above: were partners continuing their business under separate names, or were descendants carrying on with their deceased parents’ names in order not to lose trade?