I recently got a 26" 6ppi rip saw by Joseph Peace & Co (HSMOB: 1849-1899) that has some interesting features; -the handle has reinforcing plates on both sides (this appears to be a feature of Peace's saws), and one plate is etched to show the Registration date of this plate design. -the saw screws are iron/steel, with domed screws and raised steel split-nuts (I've never seen steel split-nuts before) -there is a nice bold blade etch, featuring the English coat-of-arms This saw has been well used, as shown by its pointy toe, but is still in fairly good condition (and will look even better if I ever get around to cleaning it up a bit) In researching for some history I found the catalogue of the London 1851 "Great Exhibition of the Works of Industry of all Nations", which has a very interesting entry for Joseph Peace. Peace highlights his saw handles with his new style of Registered (= patented ? ) plates (note plates is plural, as Peace used plates on both sides of the handle), and his "new method" of marking blades (etching ? ) "introduced by the exhibitor" (was Peace the first sawmaker to use etching ?? ). Also noted are various material options used in making the saws; Handles in zebra, rose, beech, mahogany, japanned (??). Handle plates in steel or brass. steel screws .... [many other sawmaker exhibitors are also included in this catalogue. interesting reading ] http://books.google.ca/books?id=kj6...age&q=joseph peace hand saw sheffield&f=false Some Questions Are British registered designs available on an internet database? When was blade etching first used in Britain, and by who? Did other sawmakers also use steel split-nuts ?
Hi Kiwi, I have found this re registered designs but cannot make head nor tail of how to search it. http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/research-guides/reg-design-trademark.htm Perhaps you can make something of it. The search methods and parameters seem particularly obtuse to me. As for etches, I don't really know but I have two dates in my mind. One is 1838 and the other is 1850 -ish. Neither, of course may be right as I am dragging the depths of my memory. Both would fit in with your saw which looks as though it may well have been a Great Exhibition model. Either that or a very fancy export one. As for split steel nuts, I have no idea. But I have to agree with Paul that it is very nice and it also puts me firmly in my place re handle plates with sharp corners (Re your brass one). I think that Simon has commented on the lists of exotic wood for handles before to the effect that most were for show only. I think that it would be a hard job to actually get one. Fred I have just found this Useful Registered Design Number: 2288. Proprietor: Joseph Peace. Address: Sheffield, Yorkshire. Subject: Saw handle. Category: ... Patents, Designs and Trade Marks Office: Non-ornamental ('Useful') Designs Act 1843 Representations. Useful Registered Design Number: 2288. Proprietor: Joseph Peace. Address: Sheffield, Yorkshire. Subject: Saw handle. Category: Tools, Carpenter's Bench, Flooring Cramps [Clamps]. Collection: Records of the Board of Trade and of successor and related bodies Date range: 29 April 1850 - 29 April 1850 Reference:BT 45/12/2288 Subjects:Trade and commerce Here http://discovery.nationalarchives.g...&_ps=15&_ro=any&_rd=&_rsd=&_red=&_fr=&_st=adv also this This record has not been digitised and cannot be downloaded. Request a quotation for a copy to be digitised or printed and sent to you. Order a copy View at The National Archives for free Reference: BT 45/12/2288 Description: Useful Registered Design Number: 2288. Proprietor: Joseph Peace. Address: Sheffield, Yorkshire. Subject: Saw handle. Category: Tools, Carpenter's Bench, Flooring Cramps [Clamps]. Date: 1850 April 29 Held by: The National Archives, Kew Legal status: Public Record Language: English
Thanks for that data on registered designs Fred. My question on the "first users" of etching was probably a silly question, as I imagine that this was initially an expensive process and only used by various sawmakers for special occasions (i e for presentations, Trade Exhibitions, etc), until the process was refined and the cost was reduced sufficiently to be attractive for some production runs, before becoming general practice. I expect my saw was a production saw for export to the Americas as it has a regular beech wood handle. The catalogue for the Great Exhibition lists all kinds of exotic woods for saw handles; Ibbotson Bros list "ebony, mahogany, rose, lignum vitae, maple, zebra, tulip, box, satin, red, beech-wood handles, plain and variously ornamented", and Taylor Bros list "french polished horse flesh handles" (I had to look that up. Apparenntly Horse Flesh Mahogany is a hard dense wood from the West Indies) Backsaws could have "fluted backs" (Samuel Biggin & Sons), or "Tubulated backs formed of iron, german silver, and brass" (Slack Sellars & Grayson) Handles could have "Inlayed silver shield, etched", "electroplated german silver shield and screws" etc Where are all these fancy exhibition saws now ??
I took this saw apart for some gentle cleaning. This is sometimes a difficult task, and there's a risk of damaging the saw, but it often reveals some interesting details about the saw manufacturing and history. In this case the disassembly was fairly easy. The interesting details revealed are; - the iron "split nuts" are actually hybrid "cap screws" with the centre threading extending right through, instead of the usual stopped hole. - the plate under the handle is stamped "BEST" (I wonder what other categories there were. "good", "fair", "poor", "crap" ? ) - the screw holes through the plate don't exactly match the handle holes, and some enlarging has had to be made to allow the screws to fit. Normally I associate this with a replacement handle, although in this case the handle seemed original. Perhaps it was not important to get the holes precisely aligned and a bit of an interference fit was a desired feature that meant that the handle would be locked in place and unlikely to work loose during use?
Hi Kiwi, Here's a link for you http://www.wkfinetools.com/huk/z-UKReading-hist/acidEtching_Saws/acidEtching-Simon1.asp It's an article written by Simon that should answer your question. Quoting "The first dated entry (some of the earliest are not dated) for a sawmaker is May 23 1849, for Marshes and Shepherd.." So, there may have been etching using other processes, prior to that, but I think the James Bagshaw transfer process would be the first to be used on a production scale. Regards Ray
Fred, mmm...Cheap foreign import, with a name that is close to the brand name of the local American manufacturer ("Johnson" is similar to Disston's 2nd line, "Jackson"). Made cheaply so it can be priced to undercut the local product... ........seems similar to trade practices I've been hearing about, since.... forever. Paul, Its possible the bolts are replacements, but the main issue is that the holes though the steel side plates (and handle) don't align exactly with the holes in the saw plate. Maybe the entire handle etc is all replacement, but I'm inclined to think they've all belonged together from the factory. (Perhaps the sideplate making guy, and the sawplate punching guy, had some template miscommunication problem, then just fixed it to make it work) Ray, Thanks for the etching timeline. [1849 is early enough to add doubt to much of my guessing on production dates ]
Hi Kiwi & Paul, I recently bought a saw stamped Welch & Griffiths but with side plates and domed steel nuts, excitedly thinking I'd found an undiscovered W & G model. But of course the handle was a replacement. It was rosewood, the side plate stamped with Joseph Peace's registration (although in a different typeface) and had the same domed nuts as Kiwi's example. My point being that, since we've found two alike, the nuts are probably original and not replacements. If I remember correctly, the exhibition catalog for the 1851 Great Exhibition mentions the domed nuts in Peace's saws, along with the registration plates and exotic wood handles. David
Well this is turning into a regular little carousel. I recently received a batch of saws from the US. One of the was the Charles Peace saw I posted here: http://www.backsaw.net/index.php?option=com_jfusion&Itemid=58&jfile=showpost.php&p=3005&postcount=16 I have a photo I nearly didn't take of the domed bolts/nuts ... and they are like these ones here ... except I suspect they've been trimmed down and slotted (here). But another was a Welch & Griffiths/Boston, one of 6 split-nut saws ... all lat-sanded brass heads excepting a medallion only on the WG. That thread is ... http://www.woodworkforums.com/f152/saw-report-4-a-179415/#post1722830 But I'll copy the pics ...
Thanks for the input, Nice to know that there's another Joseph Peace handle with the same style screws David, And interesting to see from Paul that Charles Peace is another sawmaker who used reinforcing plates on both sides of the handle.
Joseph peace saw I have a saw by Taylor and sons which has the same etch and steel domed saw nuts with a bras back it is a 12" backsaw, this looks to be a presentation saw, worlds fair or something like that may not see another other than the one i have and yours they are the only two i have ever seen as well as a friend who has literally 1000s of saws has never come across one.