Johnson, and Rotherham

Discussion in 'Forum: Saw Identification and Discussion' started by kiwi, Dec 1, 2013.

  1. kiwi

    kiwi Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    355
    A couple of 26" handsaws with elusive histories, from my "bucket o' saws". Both handles have the "London Pattern" flat based handles, with "crooked" (or "lambs tongue") detail, and nibbed blades, all features that I'm attracted to in my saw hunting forays.

    The upper one in the group picture initially seemed to be labelled "..C H NSO.. " as I cleaned back the rust, which was a bit puzzling, but further cleaning showed its stamped "JOHNSON , cast steel"
    ...but which Johnson ??
    The hooked nose on the handle indicates to me a later 1800s rather than eary 1800s production, and the lack of "Sheffield" in the stamp might indicate it came from somewhere else...so perhaps HSMOB's Joseph Johnson, 1891-95, of London ?
    The screws have only 1/8" shafts and 3/8" heads, a small size that was common early, but in this case may only indicate cheap construction. Other indications of an economy grade saw are the cheaper style handle with the plain flat base and lightly defined lamb's tongue, only 3 screws, and a blade with only minimal taper grinding. Perhaps this saw was not made by Johnson at all, but this was a trade name for someone else's economy grade saw ?


    The second saw is stamped "ROTHERHAM, Sheffield" with a trace of "cast steel" below. The four screws are raised iron screws, with brass split-nuts. The handle is a similar shape to the Johnson although the carving is a little more detailed, and the finger grip is a little larger so that I can fit 4 fingers through the grip (instead of only 3 fingers on the Johnson), so its a higher grade of saw than the Johnson.
    The maker is a bit of a puzzle, as I know of Rotherham as a place rather than as an individual (Its just outside Sheffield, and with its own steelmaking history)
    Any Ideas/Comments ??
     

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  2. fred0325

    fred0325 Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    1,084
    Hi Kiwi,

    For what it is worth ( and I suspect not an awful lot) Johnson must be a brand - single word ( so common in that form as to be effectively meaningless) and no place of manufacture.

    Although the Rotherham saw gives us a place of manufacture and "Cast Steel" in the format of a none-branded saw, I have a niggling feeling that it is still a brand. If it isn't we may never know unless someone wants to search the directories for "Rotherham" (1,142 entries in the 1879 directory alone - I think that they both look that era). I will pass on that challenge.

    Fred
     
  3. ray

    ray Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    671
    Hi Kiwi, Fred,

    I agree with Fred. Almost impossible.

    But, I'm wondering it any of these brands were subject to some kind of trademark registration process...

    The trademarks registration act was passed in 1875, so there might be an on-line database somewhere?

    What about the Company of Cutlers register of approved marks? Time for a trip to Sheffield..

    I think the http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ might be the starting point, but I can't seem to grasp their navigation scheme.... :)

    Regards
    Ray
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2013