Interesting Dovetail Saw

Discussion in 'Forum: Saw Identification and Discussion' started by BuckGroves, Oct 10, 2012.

  1. BuckGroves

    BuckGroves Member

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    I recently made a purchase of a dovetail saw that was apparently sold by Harrod's and bears their stamp.

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    It's in fine condition except for some damage to the end of the beech handle's lower horn. The blade is tight and straight. I cleaned up the rust on the blade with Naval jelly and some judicious sanding. I touched up the teeth (16 tpi) with a file, and it cuts nice and straight.

    Does anyone know who made saws for Harrod's? I'm guessing the saw is mid 1800s, but was wondering if it was possible to narrow it down a bit?

    BuckGroves
     
  2. ray

    ray Administrator Staff Member

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    671
    Hi BuckGroves,

    Nice saw, and looks to be in excellent condition.

    The "Encore" trade mark gives it away

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    Which is the trade mark of the Sheffield Maker, Thomas Turner & Co Suffolk Works.

    Great find!

    Regards
    Ray
     
  3. TraditionalToolworks

    TraditionalToolworks Most Valued Member

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    FWIW, that's not a dovetail saw, but a small tenon saw, IMO.

    Not trying to start a debate.
     
  4. Barleys

    Barleys Most Valued Member

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    I've seen several saws made for Harrods, all with the identical Thomas Turner mark.
    Without entering into any debate whatever, in my opinion this is a dovetail saw...

    (Alan - why not??)
     
  5. PeterEvans

    PeterEvans Most Valued Member

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    Hi Simon, my impression is that a dovetail saws has 1.5 - 2" under the back, whereas this saw appears to have more, and probably a thicker blade to support the depth. Not a tenon saw (too short), not sure what it is called, perhaps "short backsaw"?

    Cheers
    Peter
     
  6. TraditionalToolworks

    TraditionalToolworks Most Valued Member

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    189
    Proportionally it is not a dovetail saw. Peter pretty much answered you, but the size of the back (really HEFTY piece of brass), the thickness of the plate, the depth of the blade, all point to the fact that it is a small tenon saw.

    This was a more practical saw than a true dovetail saw, and many more were sold because of such. I have similar saws in my collection and they are not dovetail saws either.

    That said, people used them to cut dovetails saws, so in theory you could say this is a dovetail saw, but you would be wrong IMO.

    It would be very similar to calling the Spear Jackson saw you brought for me a dovetail saw, it is very similar, has a thicker plate, more depth, etc...it is not a dovetail saw.

    Because dovetail saws were so specific in their use, it seems that many people opted for a small tenon (or similar) saw instead. Carcass and Sash saws can also cut dovetails just fine, and therein lies the why we don't see too many vintage dovetail saws today, it's because not too many of them were sold. The advent of the dovetail saw trend as Pete Taran started and Lie-Neilsen continues are a recent phenomena inspired by modern hand tool work. We will see many of these saws in the wild as time moves forward, and many people buy them who never really use them much.

    Better than a dovetail saw would be a carcass saw, it is thin, can cut dovetails as well as tenons and is well suited for the pair of saws (xcut/rip) a first time hand saw craftsmen needs.

    My $0.02.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2012
  7. ray

    ray Administrator Staff Member

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    Small joinery saw... :)
     
  8. BuckGroves

    BuckGroves Member

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    So I call it a dovetail saw because I will possibly use it to cut dovetails. The blade measures 8" X 2", is stiff, and it has virtually no set, which to a cabinetmaker who cuts a lot of dovetails, makes it ideal for the job. I have quite a collection of similar sized open handled saws, and I call them all dovetail saws for the same reason.

    Actually, the saw that I am currently using is a 9" rather than an 8" saw, with a 1 5/8" wide blade. I've been using it constantly for the current project in my shop, and I love it. It's marked I. Hill late Howel London and is 16tpi. It's a really sweet saw and cuts like a dream.

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    BuckGroves
     
    shoarthing likes this.
  9. TraditionalToolworks

    TraditionalToolworks Most Valued Member

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    That works for me Ray! I just don't think of it as a dovetail saw.

    No set is not ideal for many woods, and I feel the wood should dictate how the saw is setup. I admit that I typically will not refile a saw in every case, but have certainly changed the rake and/or fleam to accommodate specific wood.

    In my experience there is no ideal saw for all type of woods.