Herbert & Son is this a rare saw, or another maker more well known

Herbert & Sons,
Herbert & Sons Ltd, 6 & 7 West Smithfield and Kings Cross

Where to start, I have had a great stroke of luck, I managed to acquire a very rare saw, now that is a term that I do not use lightly, change of subject, for all of those keen collectors looking for that special Brass Back item, Ebay seems to be chocker block full of rare saws, at least that's what they all say in the listing, ha ha.
Well on this occasion I should thank my lucky stars, as I think, I might just of snagged a rare one.
I will explain, first off, the saw I am talking about, was made by an outfit of butchers tool makers. That is if indeed Herbert & Sons did indeed make it.
The remains of the stamp on the spine are very little, I did manage to locate another open frame style of saw with a stamp that was still in its full glory or rather many more letters than are left in mine. The fact that the stamp to the back has many miss spelled letters in the wrong places, is another reason, I believe that it was made by Herbert, now not surprising there is not much of the stamp left in the spine after all I am sure this saw will of seen constant use right from 1867 or not too many years after, Herbert bought the business in West Smithfield then, but it had been running much longer back, originally John Wood, who started trading in 1760.
In 1876 the business was broken apart between family members, the company again reuniting From circa 1910 on wards the firm was known as Herbert and Sons Ltd.

Oh how did I recognise it as a butchers saw, many years ago, I worked as a butcher for my sins, that animal greasy patina is unmistakable , not to forget the smell, mind that also explains why there is so little by way of rust, the saw has seen a lot of use this is very evident by all of the many tell tail signs, but with a handle repair, I reckon it would serve another 100 years in any butchers shop.
If anyone can shed further light on this saw, the company, what other edge tools did they make and did they in fact turn out many saws, or were they infact made by another saw maker like so often is the case.

16" Brass Back Saw Tpi I have not measured but would guess around 10.

 

Hi Steve,

Forgive me for saying this, but are you sure this is the Herbert saw?

It looks to me like this is a George Rushbrooke 1899 to 1915, who was also a Butchers' suppliers in London (but never listed with the sawmakers according to BSSM). The word underneath Rushbrooke looks like Smithfield which would fit in very well.



Fred

 

Thank you Fred, What would I do without you, I can not say I am in any way disappointed, from one maker of butchers tools to another, I bet I could not make that mistake as good again, so near and yet so far.
Fred would you be in a position to answer either of my other 2 questions,
1, did they make there own tools for sale
2, even if they supplied every butcher in London ( Smithfield ), I am guessing they will not be in great number.

Once again, many thanks Fred

 

I can only tell you what is in BSSM, or what, in this case is not in BSSM.

BSSM makes no reference to them either making, or not making their own tools, but it does say that they were listed in the directories as butcher's suppliers and not listed with sawmakers. Which to my mind is a bit of a giveaway that they did not make their own saws.

I don't think that the saw is hen's teeth rare, as BSSM has a mark which is identical to yours, and so there is at least one other.

But I haven't seen one before, for what it is worth.

Fred

 

Thanks again Fred,
After you so kindly put me on the right track as to who in fact had there name stamped on the back of the saw.
I very nearly said, who made the saw then, but that is the question. Did or did they not make there own tools.
As to rare or not, I was some what playing on words there, as it is not a saw made for a carpenter, or woodworker of any kind, it was not made for a market quite as big as this.
The saws I am more used to coming by were made in there, 100's, 1,000's who knows, but a butchers outfitter is perhaps aiming at a much smaller market.

I did do a bit of googling and indeed I came across another reference to another brass back saw with the same stamp, the article was written back in 2003, the topic ended the same year, there was only mention of 1 saw that was a 20" version, the one I have is 16" blade.

Many thanks Steve

PS . I had not come across the Smithfield stamp before, now I thought I had learned lots about saws over these past few years, but I had never come across that reference before, so now I know that all saws stamped Smithfield , were indeed aimed at the butchers market. Them marketing men again.

 

A photo of one of the Rushbrooke premises by all accounts they were very successful operating businesses right through the Butchering as well as tool & clothing supply.

341, Bradford st, between Mill lane and Smithfield st. Taken around 1960 , not by me Birmingham History Forum , guys name was Mike.