Hello All, I returned from an auction this weekend laden with saws, having won a large box lot. Among the gems and the debris I found as I was sorting was this 10" open handled backsaw. A previous owner had reset the back from canted to parallel. The back itself is 3/4" at the handle and 11/16" at the toe. The fishtail/dovetail at the bottom of the handle is nicely rounded, rather than cut straight down. The only information I've found about these makers has been from this site, so this saw deserves to be presented here. In another post, Simon has indicated dates of 1809-1811 for this partnership, which probably explains the lack of previous examples. Any comments or additions to the ever-expanding body of knowledge residing here at Backsaw.net will be very welcome. Cheers, David
Hey David Nice pick up. Can't wait to see some of the other gems and even some of the debris. HSMB suggests that there was an early Green and Pickslay who were merchants at 14 High St., Sheffield in 1822. The Baines directory has them listed on Pg 319 with all the products they sell. A subsequent Millington was added in 1823. 1825 Directory has Green Pickslay and Appleby at 14 High St. Sorta really dates it. I look at the name stamp and see three names stamped on different levels suggesting it wasn 't a complete stamp. It would be very interesting to know who actually made it. Lovely gem there David and hope this is a good start in the research. Joe S.
Hi Joe, David, I might be able to put a upper limit on the date of 1827, based on the following entry in the London Gazette.. NOTICE is hereby given, that all and every the Partnership concerns and business heretofore subsisting between us the undersigned, John Green, Charles Pickslay, and James Appleby, all of Sheffield, in the County of York, Ironmongers and Hardwaremen, and carried on under the firm of Green Pickslay, and Appleby, are dissolved on and from the day of thi date hereof by mutual- consent, so far as relates to the sai< John Green, who retires therefrom :. As witness our hands . this 30th day of June 1827- John Green. Chas. Pickslay. James Appleby It would appear from that entry that John Green retired from the business in 1827, So i'd guess that unless another Green joined the business, the saw would pre-date 1827. I haven't seen anything on Millington, but still looking... Regards Ray PS ... Very elegant looking saw too!
I badly need that green-with-envy symbol! Here's what I have in my database: GREEN, PICKSLAY & MILLINGTON SHEFFIELD High Street 1809-1811 1811: joiners’ tool and saw manufacturers; also listed separately as Pickslay & Green. ironmongers, at the same address. They were probably saw makers only inasmuch as John Millington was a partner. Pickslay was an ironmonger and merchant with a wider range of interests than the description might suggest, being involved with experimental metallurgy, and with the manufacture of cast iron goods; his activities were recorded in 1780, as Messrs Picksley [sic], Appleby and Bertram selling “products of almost all the manufacturers of Sheffield, stoves, grates, saws, files, plated goods etcâ€. Appleby appears in the 1787 directory in a partnership of founders in the Gibraltar Street area (close to Green Lane, which may have been named after this ironmonger), although Pickslay is not listed. In 1825 the same three partners were still at the same address, and advertising themselves as “cutlers to the Royal Familyâ€. A struck mark of all three names (70mm long, but too faint to reproduce) has been recorded on a handsaw of c1810. And here is a mark of the first two only on a backsaw of about 1820. Millington is as follows: CROWLEY, MILLINGTON & Co GATESHEAD Swalwell <1827> Shovel and saw makers. The firm started by Abraham Crowley was probably the largest private business in Britain in the 17th century, supplying mainly iron-made goods, including saws, and a huge range of other supplies to the government (chiefly the Admiralty); by about 1800 the firm was sinking, and had brought in Millington as manager, but it failed towards the middle of the century. The business was based in several centres in and around Tyneside; some industrial remains are extant, and their business records are a major source of information about the iron trades of the 17th and 18th centuries (there is still much more to be found out from these). The Millingtons in Sheffield were probably members of the same family. No Crowley saws are known to have survived. David- could you maybe email me personally with an attached high-pixel version of your mark photo, as I would very much like (with acknowledgement) to include it in my book, which is just about to go to press. Thanks a lot Simon (barleys@mac.com)
Hey Simon and Ray Thanks for all the clarifications. BUT....... I think the best news Simon could give us is ....."to include it in my book, which is just about to go to press." Joe S.
Green, Pickslay & Millligton Sincere thanks to all the bunch, as often before. To Ray, for information that is clarifying - and confusing, like so much information!: where is Millington in that end of business announcement? Did the saw making part exist completely separately, except for some partners' names? To David for that instant big pic, which is now incorporated into the slightly amended note of the firm. And to Joe, for that encouragement, which I need particularly this morning, when I find that my big-file sending program has failed to send a big file to the publisher... Patience, patience - deep breath and all that. Simon
Thanks to everyone for all the great info. This forum is wonderful for assembling history. And cheers for Simon's book, soon to be with us! David
I thought should post some pictures of a very early Green, Pickslay & Millington to add to the record. Notice the wrought iron rose head rivet and the shape of the handle, which typical of the late 18th to early 19th century. I pains me to say that the length of the blade was shortened. I picked it up last week for almost nothing at an estate sale. Rob
Hey Rob Nice addition to the continuing "record". The handle shape is wonderful, especially with the addition of the rose head rivet. Is there any way you can get any kind of a pic of the stamp? That would also be a good addition to the records. Thanks Joe S.
Joe, the stamp is very similar to David's original post, but mine is little more rough. I'm attaching a picture. "Green" is to the far left of the saw (as it was shortened). "Pickslay" is rather hard to make out (only "slay" is readable. "Millington" is clear.
Assuming the stamp was in the center of the back, the blade would be about 18 inches and would look like the attached rendering
Here's another example, this time a rather battered brassback. Green, Pickslay & Millington over Cast (dot) Steel. Ten inches long and 11 ppi. We're gradually getting a collection of them here.