Four Spear saws

Discussion in 'Forum: Saw Identification and Discussion' started by Joe S, Oct 23, 2014.

  1. Joe S

    Joe S Most Valued Member

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    My friend Mike decided I needed to take home some saws when I went to visit him recently. He thought one Spear saw wasn’t enough so he added three others to the back saw collection. Far be it for me to look a gift horse in the mouth but I now know what the weight of those words, “You now owe me” feels like. It will have to happen sooner or later.
    Spear .jpg Spear .jpg
    I would think all these are fairly early in the John Spear jr. production years. Each has some differences in their styles.

    The first saw is an open handled 8” brass back. The beech handle is held in place by two small 3/8 “ brass screw nuts and an auxiliary steel pin through the brass back and handle, probably not original but effective. It must have been close to a flame because of the singed parts to the handle. The name “SPEAR” is embossed into the brass spine with the serrated ZB outline. “Cast.Steel” is below the name. The two crowns that flank the Spear name really sets this apart from the next saws I will be addressing. This placement of crowns reminds me of the later American tradition of placing federal eagles beside the stamped names. I think that ended in the 1850’s in the states but Sheffield saw makers started again to put crowns on later in the century. This clean saw is dead straight and a joy to use.
    Spear25_2.JPG Spear25_3.JPG Spear25_4.JPG Spear25_5.JPG
    The second saw was the saw that Mike felt needed company. This is another open beech handled 10” steel back saw. The handle is held on again by two split brass screws but the size is 7/16”, slightly larger than the previous saw. The Beak or Hook is much more pronounced than the previous saw. The “Spear” name is stamped on the steel spine without the embossing or serrated ZB border. Beneath the name is the Cast.Steel. The saw is straight and clean and a pleasure to use.
    Spear25_6.JPG Spear25_7.JPG Spear25_8.JPG Spear25_9.JPG
    The third saw is a 13.5“steel back open handled saw. Again there are only two split screws holding the handle. These screws have been removed and reversed a long time ago. What is most odd is the handle is Mahogany which is a first for me to see on a British saw. It looks similar to the previous saws with the sharp hook but the chamfer is slightly different than the other two. If it is a replacement handle it is a very very old replacement. SPEAR is stamped into the steel back exactly like the second saw but has German.Steel under the name. A nice heavy saw.

    The fourth saw is a beech closed handled 14” saw. It has the London pattern style, and held on to the blade by two 7/16” split screws. The beak of hook on the saw is much more open compared to the previous two saws. Again “Spear” is stamped into the saw like the previous two saws, exactly the same size and serif. Beneath the name is the German.Steel.

    So, we have an interesting group with a lot of similarities yet some differences. Where these fit in a time frame, it would be hard to do other than suggesting the first saw might be the oldest. It could be the fanciest and cost the most and therefore it has all the “flash” to make a step above the rest. The others seem to be in the 1820 time period as Simon suggests in the BSSM judging from the pics. They all were purchased in North America if that has any significance. Let me know if you think I am in the right date sequence.

    Enjoy

    Joe S.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2014
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  2. Joe S

    Joe S Most Valued Member

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    This is saw #3 Spear25_10.JPG Spear25_11.JPG Spear25_12.JPG Spear25_13.JPG

    Saw #4 Spear25_14.JPG Spear25_15.JPG Spear25_16.JPG Spear25_17.JPG
    needed more space to attach the last eight pics.
    hope you enjoyed
    Joe S.
     
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  3. David

    David Most Valued Member

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    315
    Hello Joe,
    What a nice fellow that Mike has been to you! Even if he may have an ulterior motive (fewer saws in that famous barn of his?) his generosity far outweighs it.
    spear2crowns.jpg I'm disappointed to have to say that you seem to have neglected to provide us with photographs of your new saws. When you get a chance please let us see what they look like. In that spirit I attach a photo of my only Spear backsaw, which resembles your description of the first saw. My 10" example has Queen's crowns (as per Fred) which would suggest that it was made after 1837. But who knows? Anyway, congratulations on your fine gift from a good friend.
    David
     
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  4. David

    David Most Valued Member

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    Ooops. I was writing while you were uploading pics of saw 3 and saw 4. But I don't see saw 1 and saw 2.
    David
     
  5. Joe S

    Joe S Most Valued Member

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    hahahhaha David... couldn't get them fit in fast enough... well done on that speed.
    cheers
    JoeS.
     
  6. wiktor48

    wiktor48 Most Valued Member

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    Some people have all saws that I like...!
    Never seen Spear with two crowns - very nice!
     
  7. David

    David Most Valued Member

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    315
    Hi Joe,
    I've noticed that your four saws show a perfectly clear progression of hang angles, from the highest angle on the top open handle saw (the shortest one) and then gradually lowering as the saws get longer until the lowest angle on the fourth closed handle saw. Just like a textbook. Your top saw seems quite early with that thin handle, while the other three have the more usual thickness to their handles, like most 19c saws.
    My previous example has the same stamp as your first saw and the same handle as your second example, so it would slip nicely into that progression...if I were to let it leave home.
    I also notice that all of them have fat top horns, which seems to be a mild signifier of earlier saws pre-1850 or so. To that end, and not meaning to take the post in a new direction, I attach an image of another early saw; a Barber & Genn with a long, fat top horn.
    David barber&gennhorn.jpg
     
  8. Joe S

    Joe S Most Valued Member

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    Hey David
    No new direction with that nice saw. Well we know there were handle makers and you wonder if they were from one and the same maker. That one is so similar to the #4 saw handle and a comparable age and to that point do we even want to consider without any proof the American possibilities. Not really. Is this where this saw came from?
    Joe S.
     
  9. ray

    ray Administrator Staff Member

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    671
    Thanks Joe, you brighten my day! great pictures of some very special saws.

    Ray
     
  10. David

    David Most Valued Member

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    315
    Hi Joe,
    I got the Barber & Genn at a CRAFTS of NJ meet in central New Jersey. Don't know when it came over from England. I wonder if Mike got any of your saws from over there?
    David