Awful Avia

Discussion in 'Forum: Saw Identification and Discussion' started by fred0325, Aug 2, 2013.

  1. fred0325

    fred0325 Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    1,084
    Hello all,

    I apologise for putting this on here. I got it as an "also ran" with another saw off Ebay and put it away for a while as being of little interest.

    I am still substantially of this opinion, but I decided to research it and found the following

    http://toolexchange.com.au/Saws.html

    containing the 3rd photo below and

    d1523 Avia Brass back 3" vernier saw, with fantastic handle. A$ 85 .:eek: (Icon mine) I really cannot comment owing to the fact that it is for sale, but I do agree that the handle is nice.

    The only advantage that my saw has over many others is that, after arriving with the back and blade somewhat horseshoe shaped, it was possible to straighten it with my fingers. No smithing needed:).

    I still don't know who made it though or when, and any thoughts on this would be appreciated. Whoever did make it obviously thought enough of it to put a name on it.

    Fred
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Barleys

    Barleys Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    546
    It's certainly an n-th quality job, and looks like something from the post 1945 period, made for a maker of something quite else (like the Hazeon saws that turn up quite often, looking just like this: they were London makers of abrasives, never listed as saw makers, and I feel selling lots of these purely as advertising).

    Not sure why the third saw is pictured, Fred - it's an electrician's saw from the times when electric wires were run in wooden capping and casing.
     
  3. fred0325

    fred0325 Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    1,084
    Hi Simon,

    I put the third saw on because that is also an Avia and the only other one that I can find on Google, and because the seller wants 85 Australian dollars for it.

    I don't know what the exchange rate is at the moment but it is a considerable sum. Hence the :eek: .

    Fred
     
  4. ray

    ray Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    671
    Hi Fred,

    Don't apologise, all saws are grist to the mill.. sometimes it's the unassuming ones that hold the most interesting secrets and history.

    When I saw the gents saw I immediately thought of Hazeon, and the previous discussions.. about saws as promotional gifts..

    The way the mark is stamped looks unusual, and doesn't look to have been done like a "sawmaker" would.. curious, but I bet that's a clue to it's origins.

    So following that line of thought, I wonder if there is a connection to the French Aircraft Company...

    Grace's guide has a reference to "Avia" as a French monoplane that was exhibited at the 1910 exposition.

    [​IMG]
    Image from http://flyingmachines.ru/Site2/Crafts/Craft29176.htm

    Maybe it was made as a promotional gift for the 1910 exposition? ( talk about wild guessing!! )

    Regards
    Ray
     
  5. TobyC

    TobyC Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    216
  6. TobyC

    TobyC Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    216
    Pic. Also says Sheffield.

    689049681_tp.jpg
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2013
  7. fred0325

    fred0325 Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    1,084
    Thanks Toby you have really spoiled my day. See 2nd edit:),

    They look to me to be a half decent pair of tin-snips, and Sheffield to boot.

    If they did make good tools, why on earth make a saw like mine - even as a possible promotional giveaway??

    Fred

    Edit.
    It is surprising what you can find when you know where to look. The Sheffield was the key.

    http://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/ltd/the-avia-steel-and-tool-co

    THE AVIA STEEL AND TOOL CO. LIMITED

    Companies With Same Post Code

    SPEAR & JACKSON UK LIMITED
    SPEAR & JACKSON LIMITED

    FIRTH RIXSON SUPERALLOYS LIMITED
    X-CEL SUPERTURN (GB) LIMITED
    J.W. ROSE (BAKERS) LIMITED



    James Neill Holdings Limited, Atlas Way Atlas North
    S4 7QQ Sheffield, South Yorkshire

    THE AVIA STEEL AND TOOL CO. LIMITED
    Company Number: 3466019
    Previous Names: 2/2/1998 - FINISHCLAIM LIMITED
    SIC Code: 99999 - Dormant Company
    Incorporation Date: 14/11/1997
    Company Type: Private Limited Company


    The bold type is my highlighting.

    The company is now dormant, but it must have a bit more history than 1997 as I don't think that this saw is anywhere near that late, and if Simon is right about the usage of the Australian version, I am sure that we have not used wooden conduit for electrical wire in an awfully long time.



    But the most interesting thing of all is that it shares a postcode with S and J. Although this may just be a registered address so one must not get too excited about it.

    Query. Are S and J now owned by Neill Holdings by any chance?? Because if they are this bit ties in quite well with the 2nd edit.

    2nd edit.

    This gets more interesting and possibly more realistic and disturbing.

    http://www.moore-and-wright.com/group/moore-and-wright-history

    By the mid-nineteen twenties, thanks to the company’s enviable reputation, Moore & Wright was approached by the UK Government to consider manufacturing a range of quality micrometers. It was in this field that Moore & Wright’s status as UK agent for the Swiss Avia range of products and subsequent acquisition of the Avia brand and manufacturing rights, proved invaluable.

    In 1970, Moore & Wright was acquired by the Neill Tools Group, when the John Shaw Company was purchased by Neill Tools, as part of its ongoing ambitious acquisition program.

    Neill tools reflects the current ownership in the first edit, but the really disturbing thing is that this saw was possibly made by Moore and Wright and probably at the height of their quality and success.

    I don't know with what regard Avia was held, but Moore and Wright epitomised British quality when we still made things and supplied tools to the world. Alas no longer!

    To think that they may have made this saw is world shattering. :(:eek::mad:.

    I can but hope that they didn't.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2013
  8. fred0325

    fred0325 Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    1,084
    I should not have been lazy and I should have done a bit of elementary research.

    From Wikipedia

    bought initially by Neill Tools in 1985, when known as Spear & Jackson International plc. In 1995, Neil Tools renamed itself Spear & Jackson plc

    but unfortunately

    The company is the trading name of Neill Tools Ltd, owned by Hong Kong-listed United Pacific Industries Limited. Nearly all tools are now of far-eastern manufacture.

    In this case ignorance was bliss. What a pity that it is so hard, if not impossible to un-know something

    Fred.