Hello all, I don't really know what to call this saw as BSSM lists at least 4 names and I cannot tell the difference between the saws. But the name of the saw is not the point, neither is the maker although it is a Robert Sorby with a very nice set of marks. I have had this saw for ages, but it was only when reading BSSM (P 93) I saw that Simon alludes to arrised handles being put mainly on late 19th century quality handsaws with said saws being exclusively from Sheffield. He knows of one arrised handle on a backsaw. I have also looked in his description of pruning/grafting/table/household saws and their ilk, and I cannot find reference to an arrised handle mentioned in the context of them. That does not mean to say that he does not mention them, merely that I cannot find it. Anyone who can find such a reference please put a reply on here with a page no. Hence I have put this saw on here. So, is it rarity with this handle or are there lots out there waiting to be discovered. I suspect the latter but hope the former. Fred
Fred I have two arrised handle Robert Sorby saws; both stamped Robert Sorby Cast Steel Kangaroo Maltese Cross and Three Crowns. The medallions say Corporate Mark Kangaroo. I have a couple of Sorby Back saws from this period but the handles on these are rounded. 26 inch hand saw with intact nib and a 16inch table saw with intact nib,pics included I hope. Cheers Tony
Hi Tony, Thanks for putting the saws on here. I particularly like the medallion on the table /household or whatever it is called saw. It is a nice touch and, I suspect may be an alternative method to arrising the handle to denote a premium quality product. Fred
Too rare for me Fred. I don't seem to have any arrised open handle saws (yet) I do have some arrised closed handle handsaws from various makers left to right; Robt Sorby panel saw (3 crowns stamp ) W Tyzack Sons & Turner panel saw (elephant medallion) Spear & Jackson, No24 (small S&J medallion) Wragg Long & Co The Wragg Long and Co dates to 1830s, so doesn't fit to "late 19th century", but its arris is perhaps less defined than the other three. And I think the S&J fits a secondary quality line rather than best quality line
Hello folks, I know that without images this is not a very helpful comment, but I'll try to rectify it tomorrow and post some pictures. I have two hand saws, two panel saws and a table saw, all fine looking saws with crisp arrised handles, made by Welch & Griffiths of Boston, Massachusetts and I know of several others. Although W & G began business in 1830 they did not make handsaws until about 1839. I believe these saws, with blind label screws, would have been made shortly after that. I also have two hand saws with arrised handles made by (or for) the Fulton Hardware Manufacturing Co of Boston, which was in business from 1840 until 1848 or 9, before being taken over by Woodrough & Henshaw (after they left W & G). I'm inclined to think that the Fulton saws were made for them by Welch & Griffiths, but haven't hard evidence. All this is to say that saws with arrised handles were being commonly made by at least one maker in North America well before 1850. David
I've discovered that I have a Groves pruning saw of c1850 with an arrised handle – but no picture, because it's in the shed and it's cold outside. But no arrised pruning/table saws on a quick look round. When it's warmer, maybe...
Hey Fred The only saw I can remember with arrises that I have is also an American saw. As David has alluded to, it is a Fulton Works saw of Boston, made by Richardson and Co. I think as David suggests there might be a connection with Welch and Griffiths. It has a "funky" eagle that W&G were using but that may have been particular to the Boston area. This particular saw has a great handle and their is a historical reference of this company prior to 1840. I think Alexander Richardson carried on later in the St John New Brunswick area but any of the examples don't have the arrised handles that you are looking for. I would love to see some of the examples of the Fulton saws David. I will look some more for some "arris" examples. An example of the Boston and St John saw. enjoy Joe S.
Hi Joe and all, Attached are images of the two Fulton HW Manuf Co saws. I also include an image of a very early, premedallion Welch & Griffiths with a blind label screw,which closely resembles the Fulton saws, both in shape and in choice of quartersawn American Beech for the handle. The W & G is also arrised on it's top edge. The two Fulton saws are arrised at the top edge and also inside the front edge of the hand hole. I'm not sure if they're connected with Joe's Richardson saw since they're labeled "Fulton HW Manuf Co" and not "Fulton Works" Joe, am I right in thinking your saw is one that was shown in the Massachusetts Exposition of 1937? I know that the Fulton HW Manuf Co wasn't incorporated until 1840. Whether it was an outgrowth of Fulton Works I can't say. Cheers, David
Hello again, Here are some images of the Welch & Griffiths arrised saws, including the table saw. These saws are only arrised on the top edges, and only the table saw has
Hey David et al. Nice group of arris bevel handled saws. It would have taken a bit more work to make those handles and I can see why Fred is taken with the shapes and distinction of the style. Elegant and refined? When Mike Stemple did the study and comparison of the saws at the Massachusetts Exposition of 1937, there was nothing to verify that this was one of the saws exhibited and so he left it at that though it probably is fairly early. I was hoping that those saws you had were more examples of A . Richardson's work. Some big differences in our saws,especially the connectors which were specifically commented on by the Exposition judges and why they may have only received a silver medal. It also could mean they took the criticism to heart and changed the connectors in the following years. Still great saws David with more study needed. (Sorry Fred, didn't mean to highjack the thread.) Joe S.
Hello JoeS the first picture with the handle you posted is very interesting, did the back look the same ( the screws or rivets) . This is the first non german saw i see which has that rivets . I got yesterday a sorby saw in bad shap which has also an arris beveled handle. Can anybody date this saw .
Hi, As Ray said in another post, dating Sorby's is not easy as they made them for such a long time, but with this one, the medallion may be of some help. BSSM has an identical medallion listed as being around 1870 (page 540). And on p. 539 he has a mark almost identical to yours which he puts at 1870, and so it appears that 1870 is a good guess at the date. Fred Joe and others, feel free to hijack as many threads of mine as you like if you put up pictures of saws of the quality that you have done on this one.
Hey Pastahill Yes, the other side is exactly the same as the side as I have shown. As we had already talked about on the Oakley and Fox thread, I couldn't understand how the fasteners might be tightened and as we have noted, they would be hammered or peened to tighten. These fasteners have never been touched or hammered and are pristine. I guessed they figured out how to stop wood movement. Hahahaha. Cheers Joe S.