Another Waller & Co

Discussion in 'Forum: Saw Identification and Discussion' started by Underthedirt, Nov 17, 2016.

  1. Underthedirt

    Underthedirt Most Valued Member

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    225
    Hello all, I'm sharing this saw that I've acquired recently, I believe it is a Waller & Co but the Co is hard to make out.
    It's a 12.5" open handed Carcase Saw, 12ppi, the handle is 7/8" thick, the spine is not tapered, the plate is 24thou thick.
    I've read Fred's Waller thread on the forum (thanks Fred & those who contributed), & it's interesting to hear about an earlier Waller & Co, as my Waller & Co has some features that would perhaps point to an earlier saw.
    The handle is unusual & with nearly no chamfer around the round part of the boss, I was looking & looking at it & I realised that I have only one other saw only with a similar boss in my collection- a Howel London.
    Seeing them side by side there is a few similarities, starting with the rounding treatment / chamfer to the bottom edge / & toe of the spine, the off center struck mark with funny ampersand more towards the handle, the handles are of a near identical pattern, the only difference being a slight scale up in size, the bead, peak & horns line up & the bump in the handle, even the split nut position is similar & they are smaller bolts, although on the Waller they aren't the same distance from the edge of the Boss.
    Could this Waller & Co have been factored by Howell? Who knows! I find it fascinating to see them together, a pair of old survivors perhaps reunited again after 200 years or so.
    The little Howell I've had for a while & I will post a separate thread about it, as it has quite an interesting link with early Australian cabinetmaking in Melbourne.
    So anyway, do you think this Waller & Co, could be the Waller & Co from HSMOB London Circa 1780?

    Kind regards

    Mari
     

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  2. fred0325

    fred0325 Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    1,084
    Hi Mari,

    I will admit to being lost on this one.

    Lets get the negative aspects out of the way first.

    I cannot find a Waller in the 1787 Directory of Sheffield. There is no comparable directory for London, but neither can I find a saw related Waller in the 1808 Directory for London (the earliest available on Historical Directories). I also think that when you are looking in HSMOB and the attribution for any information about a saw is categorised as "Saw only" then you should take it with a pinch of salt. Compare their reference to "Frost Dove Street" being an 1830's saw and BSSM putting them, at the earliest at 1856. I spent a long time looking for an early Frost, until I realised that the almost certainly didn't exist!!.

    Any, now to the nice bits.

    Your saw has a chamfered back and which can be indicative of an early- ish saw but not conclusive.

    The mark is a simple one, and which again can be indicative of an early saw ( or a brand :()

    What I most like about it is the handle comparison with your Howel. When I first started collecting saws I had an obsession about being able to identify saws by their handle shapes, This turned out not to be. But the similarities between your two handles are extraordinary.

    I don't think that the 1780's HSMOB date for the maker is a runner, but whether or not there was an early 1800's Waller lurking somewhere as yet undetected must now, I think, be left as an open question.

    It is a lovely and fascinating saw.

    Fred
     
  3. Underthedirt

    Underthedirt Most Valued Member

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    225
    Hi Fred,

    Many thanks for your thoughts on the saw...:)
    I find mark on this saw a little odd- the "WALLER &" is easy enough to make out, but the "Co" doesn't look like Co, it's probably just too deeply struck.
    The handle is reasonably well finished & I suspect that it's not a cheaper line.

    Regards

    Mari
     
  4. summerfi

    summerfi Most Valued Member

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    185
    Hi All,
    I will add another Waller saw to the discussion that began with Fred's post in 2011 and continued with this current thread started by Mari last year. My Waller is an open beech handle 8" brass back. The non-tapered spine is 11/16" wide, chamfered on the bottom and rounded on top. The screw heads are 7/16" diameter. The maker's stamp is simply WALLER over LONDON. This stamp appears to be identical to the stamp on the Sawmill Creek saw posted by Ray in the 2011 thread. There are other similarities to that saw as well. The stamp is off-centered towards the toe on both saws. Though that saw is closed-handled, the handle top profiles of both saws are very similar. It is also of note that both of these saws were found in North America. I feel certain both saws were made by the same maker. Whether that maker was a Mr. Waller or whether this is a secondary brand I do not know. Whether these saws were made in 1780, 1820, or 1900 I also do not know. One thing I will say about this little saw is what terrific condition it is in. It is hard to imagine a saw 200 or more years old that is this nice. Whatever it's age, it has been well taken care of. With a touchup of the 16 ppi toothline, it would be ready for use.

    Bob
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  5. Underthedirt

    Underthedirt Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    225
    Hi Bob,

    Thanks for sharing your lovely little brass backed saw, the handle grip on yours is shapely, but the boss is quite plain- my Waller is similar in that respect with quite a plain boss compared to other saws that I've seen. I wonder if the London refers to quality or location on your saw?

    Regards

    Mari
     
  6. summerfi

    summerfi Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    185
    Hi Mari,
    Thanks for your response. I agree the boss, top chamfer, chamfer stop, hook, etc. are very plain on my Waller. This seems consistent with it being a second quality saw. Perhaps the London stamp was an effort to make an otherwise plain saw seem of higher quality. But, as with so many things to do with saws, who knows? I'll enjoy it for the nice little saw it is.

    Bob