An early double-marked saw

We all are aware of saws made by person 1 and marked also with the name of person 2. This double marking can take many different forms, but is chiefly found when 1 is the maker and 2 the trader selling it, who wants a bit of the action, as it were: factoring, in other words. There are untold numbers of saws with two names, but this one, sent by a friend who got in a flea market in New England recently (yes, you read that correctly: in a flea market in New England recently). It really is a Kenyon of about 1760, I think, marked thus on the back (like the Kenyon in BSSM on p366), but it's also marked on the blade with the name John Green, with crowns to top it off.
There is a lot of information about the various John Greens in British Planemakers; there were several of them, based in London and York, the latter said to have been "likely" to be related to the Sheffield Greens (Hannah and Jane were leading edge tool makers there, and Jane had saws marked with her name). I believe there is a recent book on John Green(s), but I don't have it.
I am posting these pictures to ask if anyone has any thoughts about who this JG was, and why he should have had a back saw marked with his name as early as this – or was the saw made with the Kenyon mark in c1760 and marked with the JG mark sometime later?
(I'm also posting it so that we can all share an enormous amount of sheer envy at this sort of saw being still possible to buy like this – crikey, as they used to say in Enid Blyton books [excuse the purely British reference there]

 

Well that's an exciting find, and with so few examples of really old saws for comparison it brings up lots of questions, and scope for WAGs
If I just had the plate, with its "John Green" and 3 crowns, I'd guess at 1820s
and Kenyon & Co were reported operating at that time too
BUT, the handle shape with its round boss is a style from the 1700s, pre-dating the handle style illustrations in Smith's Key, and looking like the 1770s saw pictured in S&J's "Story of the Saw" publication
Discussion of another Kenyon/Green saw from David also had plenty of questions http://www.backsaw.net/forum/index.php?threads/kenyon-green-saw.487/
although that saw seemed maybe a frankensaw.
Closer inspection and more pictures are required to check if there are any indications that any of the parts of this saw are not original
Of course, I'm not qualified to judge on saws this old, but it will certainly be interesting to follow the discussion.

Haven't found any 1760s John Green, but;
Robinson's Sheffield Directory of 1797 has GREEN, JOHN edge tool maker, 22 Burgess St
(Also Jane Green & sons, factors and manufacturers of edge tools and wool shears., 31 Arundel St.... I wonder if Jane's former husband was a John Green?)
also;
1797 Tenants of the Limbrick weir mill grinding wheels on the Loxley River were listed as Greene, Hoult, and Houle. In 1812 the wheels were sold, with equal shares to John Hoult, merchant; Joseph Houle, grinder; and John Green , edge tool maker

 

That is just magnificent, what a beautiful saw, it's in amazingly good condition for its age- wow, just wow.

Regards

Mari

 

Such a fine old saw! Having two marks like this is puzzling, though. My Green/Kenyon & Co-marriage saw that Kiwi mentioned was clearly built of two saws put together ( a Green panel saw filed thinner at the top edge to receive a Kenyon & Co back), but this one looks physically to be of one piece. I can't imagine how both of these marks show up on this New England flea-market saw. Do the screws show any evidence of having been removed at any point? That's the only way I can imagine that a Green backsaw blade might have become become joined to a Kenyon & Co back. Unless perhaps Kenyon factored it for Green (who was mostly a plane maker, wasn't he?) who then added his own stamp. But aren't they from two different time periods? Will we ever know? Will a forgotten centuries-old receipt turn up in a long locked desk drawer? But then so much work was done back then without any paper trail. A mystery saw, for sure.

On another note I'm delighted to have Simon offer a date of 1760 for this saw, since that means that the Kenyon & Co I posted, with no conclusions reached as to date, back in April 2014, is probably that age as well. It immediately becomes the oldest saw in my pile.

http://www.backsaw.net/forum/index.php?threads/kenyon-co.538/#post-3302