Hello all, This comes as an offshoot from Kiwi's fascinating topic on Warranted Superior medallions and his Martin Saw. (I think that each of his handsaws could be a topic in themselves) It is the first time in my (limited) saw collecting experience that I have come across cast-steel as oppsed to cast.steel or just cast steel. I wondered originally whether it may have been a variation on cast.steel, but I have just found a Harvey Peace (1863 to 1890?) on ebay with a hyphen between cast and steel. This got me thinking (unwise I know) and I wonder if "cast-steel" was a grammatical idiosyncracy of, and for the USA/North American market. After all both Kiwi's British Taylor and Martin saws ended up there (I think) with this variation. I do not have the faintest idea on this. Does anyone? Or can anyone point me to some non-export British saws with this way of writing cast steel In any event it looks like this usage on a Harvey Peace saw of 1863+ scuppers my Marshall Martin-as-maker theory. Never mind. Fred
Hi Fred, Disston sometimes used the hyphen, or a dot, in their "cast steel" stamps, going back to the mid 1800s. see http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/pBaker/datingDisston/datDisston-01.asp I have a couple of 20th century disston backsaws with the hyphen, (actually, a "H Disston & Sons", and a "Jackson" which is a Disston trade name) Regarding the Harvey Peace, note that Disston absorbed Harvey Peace Co in 1890. My Harvey Peace handsaws don't seem to have hyphens on their blade etches. In a quick look, I don't seem to have any other saws with hyphens or dots other than the above two c1930 Disstons, and the two c1860 English saws mentioned in the Martin saw thread (I only have about a dozen different named pre 1900 English saws with legible "cast steel" type stamps, plus another half dozen with "german steel", all found locally in Ontario. Hard to identify if they were custom made only for the North American market)
Hi Kiwi and all, For those of you who have been waiting with bated breath for the next thrilling installment of this saga - I have to disappoint you. I don't think that it is going anywhere. If you have followed Kiwi's link to wkfinetools (it is worth following the link just to look at the saws, their back markings and handles) you will have found that, as I have, there appears to be neither rhyme nor reason to Disston's usage of Cast(hyphen)Steel and a definite non-correlation from the date point of view with the British cast.steel. But then again, there never was going to be a date correlation with their usage of it as they started saw production approx. 15 years after it stopped being used in Britain. And I suspect that where Disston went, the rest would follow. At the risk of this being more sleep inducing than normal, I will summarise Disston's usage of cast steel punctuation based on Philip Baker's allocated saw numbers. Spring.steel was used on saw 12 (c.1847/48) and saw 13 (c.1873) Cast-steel was used on saws 14 and 14a (c.1853) and then on saw 20 (c.1895 to 1900) Cast.steel was used on saw 15 (c.1865); saws 17 and 18 (c.1871) and saw 19 (c. 1878). I am therefore giving up on ascribing a reasonable set of dates to North American usage of cast-steel as it looks as though it was used on and off for 50+ years. Fred
Inclined to agree with Fred - there probably isn't any great significance in the usage. Cast dot Steel is definitely early, and perhaps a bit earlier in first use than cast hyphen steel, but they overlapped, I think. Barber and Genn used both, around the same sort of date. (The use of hyphens is a subject on which editors have been known to come to blows, fight duels and generally disagree like good chaps.)
This has just been sold on Ebay. It is an Ibbotsons and Roebuck which HSMOB have down as 1821 to 1822. Whilst the saw itself is well worth owning (and Yes- I did get outbid on it), the icing on the cake is the "dot" between "refined" and "steel". It is the same period as cast (dot) steel if HSMOB have the dates right for the saw, but a variant. Still, wouldn't it be a boring world if you got everything that you wanted? Fred
Hello all, I've got a little 8” dovetails saw by "Woodhouse & Caterer" (according to HSMOB it is from 1830-40). The stamp on this one reads CAST—STEEL (hyphenated) and I thought I add my example here for reference