Interesting find

Discussion in 'Forum: Saw Identification and Discussion' started by Frank English, Jan 13, 2017.

  1. Frank English

    Frank English Active Member

    Messages:
    36
    Picked this up today at the local Thrift Store for $1.50 Can. It has a nib, 1 split nut, 1 nail and 1 ?. Looks like it never had a medallion, 26" long, 6 ppi and strange configuration to handle. Think it may have been a PO modification to the lower horn area. Little notches on both sides of handle about 1/2" onto plate. Will clean up but looks like no makers stamp in plate. Thoughts to age and comments appreciated.

    Thanks

    Frank
    saw.JPG front handle.JPG front handle.JPG split nut.JPG nib.JPG lower horn.JPG
     
  2. fred0325

    fred0325 Most Valued Member

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    1,084
    Hi Frank,

    The interesting thing to me about this one is that it almost has a lamb's tongue on it. If it is a British saw that should help in dating, if it is American - I don't know.

    If it is British, and the more that I look at it the more I think that it is, it should be late 19th century on the vestigial lamb's tongue alone.

    I would also stake a fair bit of someone-else's money that there will be a name on the plate. Perhaps worn away or bright struck so that it will not be visible until it is cleaned and even then perhaps with difficulty.

    I look forward to the "after" pictures.

    Fred

     
  3. Frank English

    Frank English Active Member

    Messages:
    36
    Morning Fred

    By "vestigial" lamb's tongue do you mean the 2 small notches in the handle below the bottom nut? Looking at p75 in BSSM that lower saw nut my first post identified as 1 ? might be what Simon shows as a "rivet". Plan to carefully clean the plate around where a stamp or etch might be. To remove the handle guess one must have to drill out the peened over rivet? Would that be wise?

    Thanks

    Frank
     
  4. fred0325

    fred0325 Most Valued Member

    Messages:
    1,084
    Hi Frank,

    "Would that be wise?"

    This is the $64,000 question. And there are so many "it depends" in the answer.

    The first one being, "Is there a name on the saw and if so, what is it and how scarce is it?"

    But if you are happy to do it and something is to be gained from it (either practical or personal), I would say "Go for it".

    I have an S Hawksworth with 4 very neatly done wire nail rivets that I intend to remove at some time, mainly to find out if the handle is original to the blade. It may well be that your lowest "rivet" is a wire nail as well. They would have been such handy things (in terms of availability and design) to use for a handle fixing.

    What also looks to be a little out-of-the-ordinary with your saw is that the existing rivet looks to be of a small diameter as does the upper hole and the lower one holding the rivet. This got me thinking at first that the saw may be earlier than I think now. But I don't see, realistically, how it can be earlier with that handle, unless in the unlikely event that your handle is a replacement.

    Fred

    Apologies for the picture quality of the Hawksworth, but it has just been taken using my desk lamp for light.
     

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  5. Frank English

    Frank English Active Member

    Messages:
    36
    Thanks again Fred. Here are a few more pictures with the plate and handle somewhat cleaned up. No makers stamp but possibly some letters. Might be wishful thinking on my part but possibly the letters N D O N [pointer at the D]. Quality of pics fair only but hopefully you can see the letters if they are there. The split nut is brass, 7/16" diameter, the rivet has a copper washer but if one was on the front long gone. Thought the rivet material might have been brass but hard to tell for sure. The saw plate thickness is 3/64" at spine and teeth. Looked in BSSM but could see nothing resembling an etch that showed --NDON at the top.

    Were the washers on your Hawksworth rivets copper?

    Frank

    IMG_0537.JPG IMG_0537.JPG IMG_0540.JPG IMG_0541.JPG
     

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  6. Underthedirt

    Underthedirt Most Valued Member

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    That's a nice old saw, I think that perhaps London could be the top word?
    Thanks for sharing...:)

    Mari
     
  7. fred0325

    fred0325 Most Valued Member

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    1,084
    It is fascinating having what looks like "London" in a slight downward curving arc, which is normally the format of the maker's name.

    It looks to be one of those saws that will remain anonymous. :(

    The rivets on my Hawksworth are steel except for one at the back which is copper.

    Fred
     
  8. Frank English

    Frank English Active Member

    Messages:
    36
    Mari & Fred

    Thank you both for confirming my eyes were seeing actual letters. Nice to know it is more likely an old British saw from the late 19th century is better than nothing.

    Frank
     
  9. Barleys

    Barleys Most Valued Member

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    546
    Looking at this saw is rather like looking at the beautiful face of a Hollywood actress of the 1940s taken with a vaselined lens – you get a misty idea of what it might have looked like once upon a time, although I have to say that achieving that degree of wear and tear of the handle and corrosion of the blade must have taken a real effort over a long time.
    The single word London, plus the 3-screws London pattern handle strongly suggest a London maker or dealer of the 1880-1910 period; I think that what's missing is the maker/dealer's name above the word London.
    I have to disagree with Fred, in that I can't attach much significance to the choice of replacement handle fasteners - apart from the very early use of castle pattern nuts (pre-1800, mostly) wouldn't you use whatever came to hand?

    Simon
     
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  10. Frank English

    Frank English Active Member

    Messages:
    36
    Thanks for the comment Simon. Nice that it has an age range for a period you and Fred can recognize. The blade is straight so with sharpening will be another user. The handle is comfortable but certainly in rough shape compared to my other finds. Sad that over here these old saws are most often found in such rough shape compared to what you find over there.

    Frank